Black XB360 120 Gig HDD + HDMI = $479

[Todd33]

Odd that HDMI 1.2 wouldn't support DD5.1, but if not, you're right that sucks. Especially since every device on the market right now (aside from ps3) is at or below this standard.

For some reason though I think this report is false seeing as though many recievers on the market currently support this version of hdmi and I doubt they are forcing optical use to gain DD5.1 support ... but I could be wrong ...

I don't think it has anything to do with HDMI. It looks like MS is not supporting LPCM 5.1 (not DD) via HDMI. LPCM is one of the main benifits of HDMI and the PS3, which supports it for both games and movies. Most new recievers, even <$500 supports LPCM via HDMI now.

I plan on a getting a new HDMI switching reciever in may, my buddy already has one

 

[Arwin]

Amir actually gives the answer in the link posted above - the audio datapath in the 360 hasn't been designed wide enough to support it. A PC can read this format from the HD DVD drive no problem.

 

[mrcorbo]

Here is your answer from the same source

7.1 LPCM is a high rate audio signal and would require more circuit redesign than we wanted to have in this new addition. But at high level, this stuff is not too hard to do compared to all the other electronics in the box. And certainly not an issue of processing power. We are only talking about audio data paths being wide enough.

So you can't upgrade from 1.2 to 1.3

Your quote was actually not relevant to the question. HDMI has always supported passing 7.1 LPCM audio. Right from revision 1.0. The main added capabilities from going from 1.2 to 1.3 would have been deep color support, the ability to pass Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio to an external device for decoding, and audio sync support (extra precision to make sure that audio and video *always* match up perfectly). Only the last one would the 360 be able to take advantage of.

 

[mrcorbo]

Odd that HDMI 1.2 wouldn't support DD5.1, but if not, you're right that sucks. Especially since every device on the market right now (aside from ps3) is at or below this standard.

Nah, you misread. Todd33 is right; it's only lacking the ability pass *uncompressed* multichannel audio. HDMI has always had the ability to pass DD and DTS and the Elite 360 supports it.

The addition of the DTS output option for HD DVD soundtracks should give a nice boost to the audio output quality and this will benefit all 360 owners. You're still not going to be able to match the audio quality of a standalone HD DVD player, though; even on discs with just the base DD+ soundtrack. Not to mention those with lossless soundtracks. Depending on the quality of your playback system it may or may not be a noticeable one, though.

I don't really expect it, but it *is* possible that when MS does the redesign to accommodate the 65nm chips they also make the necessary changes to support lossless multichannel audio.

 

[Tap In]

Odd that HDMI 1.2 wouldn't support DD5.1,

yes, it absolutely supports DD 5.1

the difference here is that 95% of users will not either have the equipment to notice nor be able to tell the difference between this 1.2 vs 1.3 nonsense as it only applies to audio of HD DVD playback of movies which is the least used of the functions of the 360.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=959881&postcount=510

Xbox 360 Elite supports HDMI 1.2 profile. For audio, you can select DD, DTS (at 1.5 Mbps), and WMA-Pro (Microsoft high fidelity multi-channel codec supported in some AVRs such as Pioneer). Since it is not based on 1.3, it will not support output of DD+ or TrueHD

 

[Diamond.G]

yes, it absolutely supports DD 5.1

the difference here is that 95% of users will not either have the equipment to notice nor be able to tell the difference between this 1.2 vs 1.3 nonsense as it only applies to audio of HD DVD playback of movies which is the least used of the functions of the 360.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=959881&postcount=510

I think the complaint is that it can't pass any of the audio uncompressed as anything more than two channels of PCM.

 

[one]

Anyway games won't be able to get better sound because of non-HDMI models and the DVD size limit...

 

[Diamond.G]

Anyway games won't be able to get better sound because of non-HDMI models and the DVD size limit...

The only thing in games AFAIK that could benefit from better (aka uber leet uncompressed) sound is in game music. Which is kinda silly cause I usually turn off in game music to listen to my own. Somehow I doubt sound effects would benefit from being uncompressed. And as Crackdown showed, you can layer audio to get pretty cool effects so the number of channels shouldn't be an issue (when passing DD/DTS 5.1 over optical).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What exactly are the good bits and bad bits of XB360 audio? It supports 5.1, right. Is the quality of that with noticeable hiss? I've just bought a new audio card for sequencing and reading up on all the quality aspects of these devices, things like 24bit 192 kHz recording etc. and super high S:N ratios, and I wonder how much audible difference it makes to most, especially in this age of 128 kbit MP3s. I despise hiss and aliasing, yet an SB Live! (with front and rear speakers swapped as the rear speakers have a better DAC) and pair of Sony cans let's me listen to 198 kbit .oggs without any complaints. As long as there's no hiss (do these consoles have decent audio outs when not using digital formats?) and no noticeable audio aliasing, is anyone but the craziest audiophile with the most expensive gear going to complain about the audio codecs in use?

I don't see HDMI 1.2 being anything other than a checklist issue, unless the current audio does have faults. But I can't imagine it does from what I've heard of different audio systems, especially when they were new and the best out there! Like washing powders, when released they were 'crystal clear' and 'amazingly lifelike'. And then a new format comes out and we're supposed to believe the old system were 'fuzzy' and 'muddy'

 

[Sis]

Which is kinda silly cause I usually turn off in game music to listen to my own.

As do many people, usually ripped to their computer in a terribly lossy mp3 format...

The market has strongly indicated that audio quality takes a back seat to many, many other factors. The iPod is a direct example of this. High quality audio is just not a selling point for the vast market.

 

[Sis]

I don't see HDMI 1.2 being anything other than a checklist issue, unless the current audio does have faults. faults. But I can't imagine it does from what I've heard of different audio systems, especially when they were new and the best out there! Like washing powders, when released they were 'crystal clear' and 'amazingly lifelike'. And then a new format comes out and we're supposed to believe the old system were 'fuzzy' and 'muddy'

I agree, I think Microsoft believes that "supports HDMI" is the checklist item and will let Sony try to convince the general public of the nuanced differences between their two. As my post to Diamond.G says, I don't believe the majority of the market cares about high quality audio.

 

[Crayon]

High quality audio is just not a selling point for the vast market.

NO JOKE.

My culture is one of HORSESHIT WORSHIP.

 

[AlNom]

I'd like to see audio being taken to the max with Guitar Hero. At least according to the IGN review, the sound tracks have been given an uplift for Guitar Hero II on the 360.

 

[RobertR1]

What exactly are the good bits and bad bits of XB360 audio? It supports 5.1, right. Is the quality of that with noticeable hiss? I've just bought a new audio card for sequencing and reading up on all the quality aspects of these devices, things like 24bit 192 kHz recording etc. and super high S:N ratios, and I wonder how much audible difference it makes to most, especially in this age of 128 kbit MP3s. I despise hiss and aliasing, yet an SB Live! (with front and rear speakers swapped as the rear speakers have a better DAC) and pair of Sony cans let's me listen to 198 kbit .oggs without any complaints. As long as there's no hiss (do these consoles have decent audio outs when not using digital formats?) and no noticeable audio aliasing, is anyone but the craziest audiophile with the most expensive gear going to complain about the audio codecs in use?

I don't see HDMI 1.2 being anything other than a checklist issue, unless the current audio does have faults. But I can't imagine it does from what I've heard of different audio systems, especially when they were new and the best out there! Like washing powders, when released they were 'crystal clear' and 'amazingly lifelike'. And then a new format comes out and we're supposed to believe the old system were 'fuzzy' and 'muddy'

Most people are just spec whores. Gives them something to whine and argue about. Their actual setups and their experience with audio/video quality are generally not on par with what they keep going on and on about.

You even have people claiming that uncompressed PCM sounds better than losslessly compressed codecs such as DTS-HD MA and TruHD. That's the equivalent of saying that a zipped up file is somehow worse than the original.....

 

[infinity4]

Most people are just spec whores.

especially those fan**** (aka ***boys). they always say something like "PS3 is best lolz because it has HDMI 1.3" which convinces me that over 80% of people on game sites have HDMI output

.......
.......
.......

when in real life they play games on 14' CRT 480i tv :smile:

anyway, is this HDMI 1.2 that bad for casual gamers??? i have always thought microsoft is currently making a games console for majority due to trying their best to become cost friendly to casual gamers, i even appreciate the fact that they are putting digital video + digital sound.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Most people are just spec whores.

That's so true. Seems to just be human nature. The moment you have statistics, they become the centre of comparison. The moment I went looking for a new soundcard, the numbers became the only means I had to compare products, without being able to try them both. Do I want 22 Hz - 22 kHz frequency response with 109 dB STN ratio, or 20 Hz - 20 kHz frequency response with 129 dB STN ratio? The card with the bigger numbers has to be the best!

especially those fan**** (aka ***boys).

The term 'fanboy' is no longer censored on this board

 

[Deusp]

Most people are just spec whores. Gives them something to whine and argue about. Their actual setups and their experience with audio/video quality are generally not on par with what they keep going on and on about.

You even have people claiming that uncompressed PCM sounds better than losslessly compressed codecs such as DTS-HD MA and TruHD. That's the equivalent of saying that a zipped up file is somehow worse than the original.....

They actually claim this on blind tests. It may be possible that TruHD is not truly lossless, but I don't know enough to comment.

 

[Sis]

They actually claim this on blind tests. It may be possible that TruHD is not truly lossless, but I don't know enough to comment.

Who claims this? I'd love to read about those studies.

 

[DeathKnight]

I would as well. Dolby TrueHD is supposed to be 100% lossless (this is barring any possible changes made with the uncompressed master or inconsistencies with end-user equipment). I don't think a blind test is really going to be valid in this instance. Any wiggle room for differences is going to be so minute (or non-existant) that you can't have individual perceptions clouding results. You'd need measurement equipment that could compare the uncompressed master with the decoded TrueHD stream bit for bit.

 

[Mintmaster]

They actually claim this on blind tests. It may be possible that TruHD is not truly lossless, but I don't know enough to comment.

Usually the claims are on blind A-B tests of the same sound clip, which are stupid because you have a direct comparison that you'll never have in a real listening situation.

These tests should be done with a hundred different audio clips that are each either compressed or uncompressed, and the test subject should assess whether it sounds compressed or "wrong" or whatever. Then do statistics afterwards on how many were guessed right.