Panasonic 10th gen plasmas coming April '07

[Pete]

Thought I'd post a few links to the upcoming Panasonic 10th gen plasmas that I gathered while researching the current gen (specifically, 6u vs. 60u vs. 600u). Might be interesting for those looking for a new plasma right now, and it helps explain the plummeting current HD prices (the 42" 60u is currently $1300 delivered from Amazon, not much more than the IIRC ~$1100 + tax advertised at Best Buy on Black Friday).

First Google hit, a French forum thread from around CES 2007 that yielded the subsequent links.
Panasonic's PR.
Panasonic Viera page of new "Harmonic Slice" bezels.
Panasonic's flash intro of 10th gen 42", 50", 56" line-up.

The main difference (besides 1080p on the bigger models) is the new monochromatic, glossy black bezel. The speakers have moved from the bottom to the side of the screen. Their may be a new video processor, though whether that's only for the 1080p models or simply a rename of the current processing I can't tell. They also mention anti-glare coating on the higher-end models, but I don't know if that's new or improved.

The last link seems to promise "Full HD" (1080p) for the whole line-up, including the 42" model, but the PR link indicates the 42" 1080p is only a prototype and the 42" April release will not be 1080p (it remains an "X" model, whereas "Z" seems to designate 1080p). Whether that means it stays at 10x7 or jumps to 12x7 or 13x7 remains to be seen.

While I don't expect the new 42" model to launch anywhere near the $1300 the current one goes for, it's still interesting to know what's a few months out.

 

[Ty]

Cool. Panny PDPs have been the price/performance leader for awhile now. I almost got one but needed a panel with better stretch modes since the majority of TV we watch is still SD - it's pretty good on the Pannys but not quite as good as I wanted. So I'm hoping the new 50" from Panny is better in that regard...looking for one now.

 

[Pete]

That's a good point, actually. Do Panny plasmas stretch 4:3 SD content horizontally to fill the screen, or add black/grey columns, or both? I remember reading something about a zoom limitation with a 4:3 source, but I can't imagine they'd not offer as many choices as possible when it came to SD material, it being still so prevalent.

 

[Ty]

That's a good point, actually. Do Panny plasmas stretch 4:3 SD content horizontally to fill the screen, or add black/grey columns, or both? I remember reading something about a zoom limitation with a 4:3 source, but I can't imagine they'd not offer as many choices as possible when it came to SD material, it being still so prevalent.

Pannys offer a few stretch modes - I can't remember the names Panny calls it. For instance, my NEC has Anamorphic which works well for some DVDs and Stadium, which works extremely well for SD broadcasts. It's just that their best stretch mode wasn't quite up to what I was hoping for at the time. It was back during the 6th or 7th gen mind you, so maybe they've gotten better.

But you also have the ability to use grey side bars if you wish or a Zoom mode but I don't consider that a stretch per se since it's not really scaling any aspects AFAIK.

 

[Capeta]

Do Panasonic PDPs still have the clayface problem?

 

[Gubbi]

Do Panasonic PDPs still have the clayface problem?

You just need to disable all the noise reduction junk. It's the same for all modern TVs, PDP or LCD.

Cheers

 

[Pete]

Really? That's what tipped me to go with the new Samsung over a Panny, despite Consumer Report's review to the contrary. I was in CC watching a Suns game in DTV HD, and the Panny showed some serious clayfacing on time-out close-ups. (OTOH, the Panny showed much more detailed dark areas with another DTV SD feed, which was in keeping with its reviews.) Wish I'd known it was just a NR, and not a panel, defect.

Also wish I waited six months, given how much prices have fallen, but hey.

 

[Gubbi]

Really? That's what tipped me to go with the new Samsung over a Panny, despite Consumer Report's review to the contrary. I was in CC watching a Suns game in DTV HD, and the Panny showed some serious clayfacing on time-out close-ups. (OTOH, the Panny showed much more detailed dark areas with another DTV SD feed, which was in keeping with its reviews.) Wish I'd known it was just a NR, and not a panel, defect.

Also wish I waited six months, given how much prices have fallen, but hey.

I had the exact same problem on my Pioneer. First thing I watched after installing was the news. News anchor looked like he wore a plastic mask.

After that... UEFA Cup football, - which was one big blurry mess.

Went into the PQ menus and disabled *all* NR features. I'm guessing that they use a low pass filter in each frame/field as well as a slight blur from frame to frame (to average out signal noise). The end result is horrid IMO.

The low pass filtering kills fine detail in the image such as pores in the skin, making people look unnatural. And the blur makes watching sports unbearable.. Of course still pictures looks fantastic, but that isn't why I bought a telly.

On top of that colour saturation and contrast was crazy out of the box. I can't for the life of me understand why TVs comes with such craptastic default settings.

Anyway, went from utter disappointment to WOW! in 2 minutes.

Cheers

 

[Ty]

I can't for the life of me understand why TVs comes with such craptastic default settings.

Because the vast majority of the public think that oversaturated colors are "teh bomb".

 

[Albuquerque]

Because the vast majority of the public think that oversaturated colors are "teh bomb".

HDR!1!!111!one!1eleventybrazillion!!11!111

 

[Pete]

Review of the 42PX77U, the updated 10x7 42". False contouring is still listed as a problem. It's not clear if they tested with NR on or off, but the last paragraph implies that they tried it both ways, so I'll tentatively assume the false contouring is separate from clayface effect and so not a NR artifact.

Anyway, more interesting would be a review of the now-confirmed 1080p 42"er (thread here).

 

[CMAN]

I'm wondering how much noise issues would crop up though without any noise reduction. To be so heavy handed in the NR makes me assume they needed it, but I could be wrong.

 

[Gubbi]

I'm wondering how much noise issues would crop up though without any noise reduction. To be so heavy handed in the NR makes me assume they needed it, but I could be wrong.

There are two kinds of noise that are usually suppressed on modern TVs: Static (white noise) and MPEG artifacts. Some TV manufacturers only have one noise suppression user-option (like Sony) which probably enables both types, others have seperate white noise and MPEG noise (mosquito noise and blocking artifacts) suppression options (like Pioneer).

White noise is usually only seen from analog tuner sources, and is just small variations in individual pixels from frame to frame. For most TVs white noise suppression seems to just be a slight spatial and temporal blur filter. It can improve the picture of crappy analog sources considerably for content with little motion. But in fast moving scenes it introduces significant blur, and stuff like icehockey and (real) football is absolutely unwatchable (IMO) with this sort of NR enabled.

If you have big problems with analog sources, go digital

Suppression of blocking and MPEG mosquito noise seems to be rude low pass filtering which kills fine detail in the picture such as skin pores. This is what makes people look unnatural in closeups ("Clay face"). This is a problem for DVD and TV sources alike, with most TV today transmitted on highly compressed MPEG on satelite channels with modest bandwidth.

I've disabled all NR options on my telly, but then the only TV I watch is sports, The Simpsons and the occasional documentary.

Cheers

 

[pascal]

Just bought the Panasonic TH-42PV70LB Plasma HDTV and conected it. I hope to be able to give first impressions next weekend, but for now it looks great