I think the problem is more related to the costs of making a game like that then if the hardware can make it happen. So far 360 has sold the most this gen with only 10 mil. Is it worth making such an expensive game if you can at max sell 10 mil. copies?
Do you think we will get Killzone CG level graphics next gen?
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I think the problem is more related to the costs of making a game like that then if the hardware can make it happen. So far 360 has sold the most this gen with only 10 mil. Is it worth making such an expensive game if you can at max sell 10 mil. copies?
archangelmorph
Veteran
Yeah, good example. They've been quoted to have something like 5 000 animations for the main character and 10 000 for the rest of the characters. Insane stuff.
I think the problem is more related to the costs of making a game like that then if the hardware can make it happen. So far 360 has sold the most this gen with only 10 mil. Is it worth making such an expensive game if you can at max sell 10 mil. copies?
overclocked
Veteran
Are we talking about doing it technically or doing it to the level that most gamers find it "the same"?
They have 120 people assigned to the task and 25M$ budget so i dont find it hard to belive when Phil Harrison said that parts of the game looks better now. Naturally he speaks good about his own companys succes etz.
If the game is good or only a expensive techdemo i dont know but i do put faith in firstparty titles and i cant dismiss it because of that.
Another reaseon is that many games on 360/PS3 looks amazing now.
They have 120 people assigned to the task and 25M$ budget so i dont find it hard to belive when Phil Harrison said that parts of the game looks better now. Naturally he speaks good about his own companys succes etz.
If the game is good or only a expensive techdemo i dont know but i do put faith in firstparty titles and i cant dismiss it because of that.
Another reaseon is that many games on 360/PS3 looks amazing now.
I would say I disagree with comments suggesting there will be something like Killzone CG level graphics THIS gen. Next gen is in 3-4 years. I would have to agree with that most certainly. I believe that once DirectX 10 matures or if DirectX 11 is around by then, we will see close to those level of graphics. I do not think those level of graphics are obtainable with the current hardware, especially current consoles. Noticed how I said close and did not say exact. This is CGI you have to remember. I think one of the things that is going to help out is physics accelerated cards. I am mainly referring to ATI and Nvidia asymmetric physics processing. I just do not see AGEIA gaining significant market share to become the standard.
are you saying that current gen consoles cannot achieve graphics beyond that of crysis???
Nick Laslett
Regular
What about MGS4? The animation we've seen so far is very impressive.
Near enough to Killzone CG for me to be very happy.
I think I'm going to download the KZ CG and give in another look, it's been a long time since I last saw it. Since Gears of War and Motorstorm have been released, I've thought graphics near the quality of KZ CG would be possible this gen on both the Xbox360 and PS3.
It is very disappointing that a lot of people in this thread see it not happening quite yet.
Hopefully Heavenly Sword will be released in March and give us another benchmark for nextgen graphics.
Thats irrelevant, anybody here with the slightest clue about hardware can tell you that the Killzone CGI movie, is impossible to achieve in games this generation. You just have to take a look at the amount of AA to say that straight away..
overclocked
Veteran
I dont think the budget of a game is irrelevant. As i said im not sure whether we are talking doing it technically perfect(as its quite obvious that no console can render the same amount of workload as is in a CG movie nowadays) or with finess and tricks so to say . I belive the later is feasible because of it being done on a console and also is a Firstparty title.
I must mention that for a CG clip(production value) its "decent only" imo and has some aliasing from what i remember.
Nick Laslett
Regular
So, I've downloaded the Killzone trailer from gametrailers.com.
I already have the MGS4 TGS'06 trailer on my machine.
I've watched the KZ trailer 6 times, the MGS4 trailer twice.
What is so amazing about the KZ trailer that it can't be matched this gen?
Maybe I've been playing too much Gears of War and Resistance?
I mention the MGS4 trailer because I just don't see the animation being any better in the KZ clip.
I think the overall pace of the KZ trailer and the amount of continuous action to be unlikely as it doesn't give the player much time to breath. You could probably cut the number of characters on screen by half, but there are so many I don't think this would really notice.
Stuff like the smoke, fire, explosions do not even seem to be beyond what Criterion accomplished with "Black" on the PS2.
There doesn't seem to be any great amount of environmental destruction, nothing like Black, we just see a few vehicles explode.
There is no way the AI will be good enough to orchestrate a battle like that.
But I don't see why a scene very similar to the Killzone CG can't be achieved on the PS3 or Xbox360.
If Gears of War could handle 20 people on screen at once and maintain the same level detail, then we already would have something as good as the KZ trailer.
Only the final explosion at the end looked unlikely to be as detailed in real time.
The clip is only 2 minutes long and the actual area where it takes place is tiny and not especially impressive from a graphical perspective. No bigger than a typical Gears of War area. Each character model is no more detailed than the Gears of War characters, it is just that there are so many of them. At a rough estimate I would say there about 30 people in the scene with about 12 visible at any one time.
I've just watched the clip another 2 times. It was impressive back in May 2005, but it seems a lot more achieveable now, imho.
Ostepop, you are right about the AA, I don't expect any realtime graphics to look that smooth for a very long time.
I already have the MGS4 TGS'06 trailer on my machine.
I've watched the KZ trailer 6 times, the MGS4 trailer twice.
What is so amazing about the KZ trailer that it can't be matched this gen?
Maybe I've been playing too much Gears of War and Resistance?
I mention the MGS4 trailer because I just don't see the animation being any better in the KZ clip.
I think the overall pace of the KZ trailer and the amount of continuous action to be unlikely as it doesn't give the player much time to breath. You could probably cut the number of characters on screen by half, but there are so many I don't think this would really notice.
Stuff like the smoke, fire, explosions do not even seem to be beyond what Criterion accomplished with "Black" on the PS2.
There doesn't seem to be any great amount of environmental destruction, nothing like Black, we just see a few vehicles explode.
There is no way the AI will be good enough to orchestrate a battle like that.
But I don't see why a scene very similar to the Killzone CG can't be achieved on the PS3 or Xbox360.
If Gears of War could handle 20 people on screen at once and maintain the same level detail, then we already would have something as good as the KZ trailer.
Only the final explosion at the end looked unlikely to be as detailed in real time.
The clip is only 2 minutes long and the actual area where it takes place is tiny and not especially impressive from a graphical perspective. No bigger than a typical Gears of War area. Each character model is no more detailed than the Gears of War characters, it is just that there are so many of them. At a rough estimate I would say there about 30 people in the scene with about 12 visible at any one time.
I've just watched the clip another 2 times. It was impressive back in May 2005, but it seems a lot more achieveable now, imho.
Ostepop, you are right about the AA, I don't expect any realtime graphics to look that smooth for a very long time.
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Well, after seeing Gears of War and Heavenly Sword which is one of the PS3's first great games I have hopes something close atleast might be achievable in future games.
Yet again Laa-Yosh's words flew past the wishful thinkers' heads. Tell us how, from where, will PS3 make up the shortfall in pure rendering capacity? Cutting something in half or completely, will only mean it is NOT achieved. You can keep repeating to yourself no and no but expect to see a noticeable downgrade to polygonal edges and normal maps.
What was it about Killzone fans crying over unfair reviews because of false expectations from mediasites, why then are they STILL holding out for a prerendered video? A prerendered video that was only their PR tool because of a lack of real PS3 software development.
What made people go crazy over Killzone CG then was from no where Sony managed to showoff a "game" that breaks away from convention. That the Cell was the real deal and will bring an paradigm shift for next gen. The whole package of supercomplex models interacting animatedly and realistically during a dropship invasion. We know that is not possible for this gen of consoles so can we let the Killzone PR-CG die and enjoy for what its worth realtime, on the real PS3?
What was it about Killzone fans crying over unfair reviews because of false expectations from mediasites, why then are they STILL holding out for a prerendered video? A prerendered video that was only their PR tool because of a lack of real PS3 software development.
What made people go crazy over Killzone CG then was from no where Sony managed to showoff a "game" that breaks away from convention. That the Cell was the real deal and will bring an paradigm shift for next gen. The whole package of supercomplex models interacting animatedly and realistically during a dropship invasion. We know that is not possible for this gen of consoles so can we let the Killzone PR-CG die and enjoy for what its worth realtime, on the real PS3?
Sorry didn't mean to ignore your post. It just that I'm VERY confident that the PS3 will achieve the Killzone trailer quality visual one day.:smile:
It is easy to dismiss your opinion as you cannot backup your confidence with some fact.
Nevertheless, what would have been the comments among developers if someone had shown videos of gameplay from "Shadow Of The Colossus" and "God of War" with some nice examples of HDR simulation and dynamic shadows 18 months prior to Playstation 2 launch?
I believe most would have dismissed them as fantasy and still so at the time of the launch of playstation 2.
I am not saying that Killzone will look like the CG, but think about it. There will be tricks used by developers in the future, that have not yet been invented.
There was this post just the other day about some new clever usage of the edram+AA logic of the 360. I think some amazing fx will be created by developers thinking out of the box, just give them a couple of years.
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