Wii games recommendation

[Shifty Geezer]

I think you are misunderstanding the control mechanics they put into Wii Sports....

Tennis is built around purely timing shots, there is no directionality implemented. The earlier or later you time your shot determines where it goes.

Isn't that the whole point of the argument though? That the control isn't intuitive, whether it's there or not? Why can't you direct the shot with the motion you apply on the controller?

Wii may well offer different control schemes, but the whole idea is for them to be life-like, and get past the need to learn how to play them so anyone can pick them up and get involved. Wii Sports hasn't pulled that off, and I can't remember hearing yet about a game that has. Early days yet, but I'd have liked a more more definite intial experience where what you do in real life is exactly mirrored in game, rather than translated in other motions.

 

[patsu]

There were talks about Wii Karaoke. Is it real ? If so, when will it be out ? Would like to buy a set and send to my parents.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Is there a Mic in the Wiimote? I know one was rumoured, with talk of Wii telephoning. That'd take up one of those many channels waiting to be filled.

I don't think this got past the rumour stage (http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/710/710145p1.html). No word since the speculation based on a website, that may have just been Nintendo getting in quick with URL reservations before deciding whether they'd use them or not.

 

[Iron Tiger]

Isn't that the whole point of the argument though? That the control isn't intuitive, whether it's there or not? Why can't you direct the shot with the motion you apply on the controller?

Wii may well offer different control schemes, but the whole idea is for them to be life-like, and get past the need to learn how to play them so anyone can pick them up and get involved. Wii Sports hasn't pulled that off, and I can't remember hearing yet about a game that has. Early days yet, but I'd have liked a more more definite intial experience where what you do in real life is exactly mirrored in game, rather than translated in other motions.

From reports I've been reading from ALL around the net, from real people, regular people (non-gamers) aren't having any difficulty picking up the Remote and getting into Wii Sports. I've read countless reports of Wii owners' parents and grandparents having a blast playing Wii Sports after never having played a video game before, or with their most recent being Pac-man.

In my observation, some will pick up the controller and immediately see that what they do doesn't exactly get a mirrored response by their Mii avatar, but it's a quick realization and they move past it and enjoy the game. I've only had one out of maybe 20 people get frustrated and give up on it. The game was Bowling, and the person was my friend's mom who had bowled professionally for years, and we were sure she'd get a kick out of it. Then on the opposite end of the spectrum, there's my brother who had played baseball growing up and immediately figured out how to make a fool out of me in Wii Sports Baseball.

A lot of us technical-minded gamers went into it with the preconceived notion that the system was gonna be all about 1:1 motion capture and control, and that was going to be where the fun came from. Maybe we were still holding onto those virtual reality dreams of actually being in the game. But after E3 when I saw how games would really play and got to feel some for myself, I let go of that expectation. On the PC, I loathe gesture recognition, because the interface is clunky and slow, and doesn't add to my enjoyment of the experience, whether its productivity or entertainment. On the Wii, that's where the fun is derived. I can understand some people feeling about it on a game console the way I feel about it on the PC, except that this controller works so much better at that sort of thing than a mouse tracking across a 2D plain.

To DemoCoder, I suggest getting a Wii Remote and connecting it via Bluetooth to a PC using something like GlovePie (which comes with some scripts to get you started). You'll immediately see that the controller has a lot of input variables and the limitations are mostly put in place by the developers. Once you start making scripts for your own apps/games or using ones that other people are writing, I'd be interested to hear again how you feel about the Wii Remote's potential.

 

[thatdude90210]

Tennis is built around purely timing shots, there is no directionality implemented. The earlier or later you time your shot determines where it goes. This is actually something I've seen before, implemented in a virtual tennis game on the PC over 10 years ago.

I think there is directionality in volleying. That's what it takes to win points at the net. If you don't angle your wiimote, the volleys usually go straight back to the opponent.

 

[rabidrabbit]

The practise mode in tennis at least has directionality, there's a section where you need to shoot the ball either left, right or center and to a moving target.

 

[icecold1983]

i have to agree with democoder, it seems like all its doing is gesture recognition as i can accomplish every single thing sitting on my couch flicking my wrist as i can standing up and doing proper motions. kind of ruins the point of the console.

also while we dont know if its limited to gesture recognition, we also dont know if the hardware inside the wii is even fast enough to process realtime motion captured(couldnt think of the right term here) movement. i mean as long as nintendo had to develop the system, if the hardware was capable of so much more im inclined to believe wed have seen demos or proof of it by now.

 

[patsu]

Is there a Mic in the Wiimote? I know one was rumoured, with talk of Wii telephoning. That'd take up one of those many channels waiting to be filled.

I don't think this got past the rumour stage (http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/710/710145p1.html). No word since the speculation based on a website, that may have just been Nintendo getting in quick with URL reservations before deciding whether they'd use them or not.

Ah ! That's too bad. Thanks for the update Shifty.

 

[Rolf N]

Why not just play them on your GC?

1)Beauty. The Gamecube is a comparatively clunky and big old lump of plastic. The Wii is much less embarassing.
2)The unseen mess. I have "only" two eligible inputs on my TV, they are now taken by the Wii and the PS2. I don't want to plug around!
3)The non-existance. My Gamecube has actually flown across Ebay to a new home. I couldn't find value in keeping it around, alongside the Wii, and people still pay (a little) money for them things.
4)Timebombs. My brother's Gamecube, after extended malady involving the disc cover mechanism, ceased to function completely in November. Just in time. It was uncanny.

Is there a Mic in the Wiimote? I know one was rumoured, with talk of Wii telephoning. That'd take up one of those many channels waiting to be filled.

It is the inevitable nature of dynamic speakers, one of which can be found in the Wiimote design, to also be functional as microphones. Not so well at the same time though. And an ADC would be required, too.

Honestly I have no idea but just because we can't see a discrete microphone doesn't tell us squat about what's cooking.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That's true enough. The speaker is hardly well positioned to be a Karaoke mic though. Maybe we're looking at an attachment on the other end? That'd make a lot of sense.

 

[-=P3tRaN=-]

"Wii games recommendation"

I'd recommend getting the simple, funny games like rayman and wii sports/wii play.
thats where the fun is to be had with the wii.
dont know how this will change in the future, but for now this is my suggestion.

 

[fearsomepirate]

All this thread is doing is showing the disparity between hardcore and truly mainstream gamers. Hardcore gamers want a fencing sim where they can put all those finely-honed sword skills to the test that they've practiced for years with their LARP buddies. They want tennis sims that require days if not years of practice to gain any competence. They are shocked, appalled and even offended that software publishers are pandering to the unwashed masses by simplifying games so that anyone can get into them.

If you thought Wii was going to be the definitive sim machine, you misunderstood everything Nintendo publicly said about it. They repeatedly said that their goal with Wii was to make a simple, nonthreatening game machine that any person from 5 to 95 could get into. They argued pretty consistently that the complexity of modern gaming is driving away would-be gamers. Deeper, more technical, more accurate sports sims are the exact opposite of what Nintendo is going for with games like Wii sports.

That doesn't mean you won't see any sims. But honestly, you need to get off your high horse. These games you're complaining about aren't supposed to be sims. You sound like the snooty geeks who complain about the unrealistic physics in Ridge Racer and non-licensed vehicles. Why don't you just acknowledge that Wii Sports isn't targeted at a sim geek and move on?

Oh, and by the way

 

[Shifty Geezer]

All this thread is doing is showing the disparity between hardcore and truly mainstream gamers.

I am no hardcore gamer! I don't play tennis for real. And I'm not saying Wii isn't fun for many people. But it would be better, for everyone I dare say, if it was more intrinsic. When you know you are holding a virtual racket, it is natural to swing that racket from left to right to send the ball to the right. This doesn't need sports skills honed over years of practice, nor an in-depth advanced physics simulator. It's a natural response that ties in with the motor skills everyone has been using all their life. When the game doesn't do that, it's unnatural. Which flies in the face of avoiding people having to learn new skills to be able to game, which is contrary to what Wii is supposed to be. I can believe that for a lot of people, just the act of swinging their arm around and getting points, without caring to actually control it much, is fun. However, there's also lots of people who are going to get turned off by the unnatural controls - not necessarily hard-core games as your prejudices suggest - and ideally games should cover both audiences.

But honestly, you need to get off your high horse. These games you're complaining about aren't supposed to be sims.

And you need to calm down and respect other people's opinions.

 

[Iron Tiger]

When you know you are holding a virtual racket, it is natural to swing that racket from left to right to send the ball to the right. This doesn't need sports skills honed over years of practice, nor an in-depth advanced physics simulator. It's a natural response that ties in with the motor skills everyone has been using all their life. When the game doesn't do that, it's unnatural. Which flies in the face of avoiding people having to learn new skills to be able to game, which is contrary to what Wii is supposed to be. I can believe that for a lot of people, just the act of swinging their arm around and getting points, without caring to actually control it much, is fun. However, there's also lots of people who are going to get turned off by the unnatural controls - not necessarily hard-core games as your prejudices suggest - and ideally games should cover both audiences.

In reality, swinging left or right has little to do with what direction the ball will vector off your racket. If you're swinging your racket in a rightward arc, timing becomes primarily critical. If you hit the ball too early in your arc, the ball will travel left. If you hit it too late, the ball will travel far right. Wii Sports Tennis has that, and people "get it" pretty early on. And if they don't, all they need is for someone to tell them to time their shots, and it's like the mysteries of the universe unfold before them. They start having fun, and if the session isn't too long, they don't start finding things to complain about. When they complain that it doesn't work, it's clearly because they suck at it.

 

[fearsomepirate]

When they complain that it doesn't work, it's clearly because they suck at it.

Nonsense. The reason I can't get anywhere in Starcraft is because the controls don't work. ;-)

 

[pc999]

It is just my impression or the moto of this thread is based on the premisse that no game (or at least most of them) will not have better or diferent controls than what had been done by now, ie that there will not be a eg tennis game with better and more precisse controls than WiiTennis.

That can happen (althought very improbable IMO, just like it would be if DS game keep being like the launch games) but it is just to soon to tell.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It is just my impression or the moto of this thread is based on the premisse that no game (or at least most of them) will not have better or diferent controls than what had been done by now, ie that there will not be a eg tennis game with better and more precisse controls than WiiTennis.

No. It was just people saying that at the moment, the games aren't necessarily what people were hoping for/expecting - and by that, recommendations aren't all that easy depending on what you're looking for.

Having just played another 6 hours of Wii Sports with friends, the fact they're entertaining games isn't in dispute, but likewise they're not as intuitive as they could really do with being. Talk of timing be critical in where a tennis shot goes is pretty much nonsense IMO. If I hold the racket so the face is pointing 45 degrees to the right, when the ball hits the face, it'll bounce to the right. And if I turn the racket to the left, the ball would go left. This doesn't happen in Wii Tennis and though it's fun to have a rally, it would be better if you had better control over placement of shots through the natural way of play. 6 smashed volleys in a row all returned to the oppositon on the left of the court, when the right is totally open and where you want to hit the ball and naturally turn the racquet to face, ponits to a game that could be improved a little

Again, I reiterate that this is observation of the current game(s). Quite possibly future games will be better. One certainly hopes so. And lack of better control doesn't stop the game from being entertaining. However, I don't feel there's much of an excuse for the current Wii Tennis control system, certainly not of the 'it's realistic' sort, or the 'only tennis professionals care.' Criticism of game control schemes (or anything else) are needed to inform people to changes that can be made to improve them, so in Wii Tennis Pro or what-have-you, you can direct the ball by the angle you hold the raquet, making it more a game of skill. Or at least, of the skills people already have. Any control system is a game of skill, but the control schemes people slate are those that aren't natural and would require too much work to learn.

 

[Acert93]

Why don't you just acknowledge that Wii Sports isn't targeted at a sim geek and move on?

A game need not be a sim to be deep with longevity. A game need not have a short learning curve to be accessible either.

This is one of the reasons I have quite enjoyed many of Nintendo's first party games in the past. Mario Tennis is a classic example of a "pick up and play" style of game that not only had a rewarding learning curve but quite a few modes and features that extended gameplay. And it wasn't even a sim :smile:

 

[Rolf N]

Honestly, anyone who thinks that flicking your wrist is all you ever have to do in Wii Tennis only demonstrates that they have not played it very far. Penny Arcade guys, I'm looking at you too.
Try visiting someone who has and play against those computer enemies rated at 1500+ points of skill. If emulating a timed button press is the full extent of your repertoire, you'll be wiped out period.

Farkin' old dogs pretending they have proof that no new tricks can exist.

 

[JacksBleedingEyes]

I completely agree with the post above. There is a lot of depth the the Wii Tenis game. For a while I used to be able to return shots perfectly in the corners, so that as soon as someone served me a ball they would not be able to return them regardless if they came on my forehand or backhand. The trick to preventing this is either serving a power shot or serving a really slow ball. If you serve a really slow ball the corner shots will hit the net and more often then not bounce out or slow down so the oponents can smash them back.

There are so many strategies you can apply. Timing is important but as is the speed at which you hit with, and the rotation you apply to the controller and also the carry through on the controller.

I agree, to all those who said its just a gimmick, its just that they held the controller for 5 minutes, didnt really get into the game and had to make some excuse at why they are crap at it. I'm struggling beating even 800+ oponents.

Give it a proper go before you decided to bad mouth it.