Thanks for interesting inputs, but Audi R8 has ceramic brakes as an option.
http://www.audiworld.com/news/07/r8-in-depth/at-a-glance/content.shtml
http://www.independent.co.uk/living/motoring/features/article2262713.ece
The GT5 expectation thread (including preview titles)*
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http://www.audiworld.com/news/07/r8-in-depth/at-a-glance/content.shtml
http://www.independent.co.uk/living/motoring/features/article2262713.ece
makaveli87
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Ostepop, you do realize that slowing a car down from 155mph by 60mph will be much quicker than going from 60-0.
Well, the graphics part is already clear as GT-HD (demo) already looks better than FZ2...
I was going to point out the same thing.
At 3:23 in the video, game clock is at 2:39:06X, hes going at 155mph, he starts braking fully, 2:41:2XX a mere 2 seconds later, hes going 82mph, he reduced his speed with 73mph in 2 seconds!!!!
73mph deacceleration in 2 seconds will rip some internal organ out of you
If I am not mistaken that corresponds to a decelaration of about 2.5 g.
It's not unusual that a roller-coaster ride involves 3-4 g. My personal roller-coaster experiences have not involved much gore.
Notice the smiley in that comment. ^^
And people, obviously, i thought the Audi R8 didn't have Ceramic brakes (according to audi Norway, they don't deliver that until late 2007). Hence the braking power seemed a bit to strong.
As far as grip goes, cant really tell from a video, it supposedly more real than GT4, and thats a good thing.
And people, obviously, i thought the Audi R8 didn't have Ceramic brakes (according to audi Norway, they don't deliver that until late 2007). Hence the braking power seemed a bit to strong.
As far as grip goes, cant really tell from a video, it supposedly more real than GT4, and thats a good thing.
Based on the R8 in real life not having Ceramic breaks, or the car in a game supposedly not being modelled on a car with ceramic brakes? The last option would be guessing
So if your bold estimates from the video capture end up with a realistic value of the deceleration, why did you add that text about "deceleration ..... will rip some internal organ out of you"?
It could be interpreted as "this is something out of this world", when in reality it wasn´t.
I didn't specifically refer to the R8 in the video, i was speaking generally.
Generally, GT games offer to much grip, even with the worst tires, the handling characteristics are often singificantly better than in real life. Anything above the "stock" tires in GT4 results in beyond supercar handling.
But since you two are talking about the video, i just downloaded it and took a look. Firstly, im just gonna say that unless you didn't know the R8 infeneon LMP1 is the Le Mans prototype race car.
At 2:11 in the video, the game clock is at 1:27:6XX, hes going 135mph, braking at 70ish percent, reduces him to 71mph after 2.4 seconds. 64mph down, not even fully braking!!
At 3:23 in the video, game clock is at 2:39:06X, hes going at 155mph, he starts braking fully, 2:41:2XX a mere 2 seconds later, hes going 82mph, he reduced his speed with 73mph in 2 seconds!!!!
73mph deacceleration in 2 seconds will rip some internal organ out of you
This is a car with normal brake calipers, not the ceramic brakes used in supercars and racecars.
In comparison, Autobild did 0-60-0 tests a year or so ago. These tests included all kinds of cars. Here was the fastest braking cars in 60-0:
911 Turbo (ceramic brakes) 2,46
Carrera GT(ceramic brakes): 2,58
Gallardo (ceramic brakes) 2,39
SLR McLAren (ceramic brakes) 2,52
F430 F1 (ceramic brakes) 2,48
Merc CLK DTM AMG (ceramic brakes) 2,40
As far as the R8 Race car goes, it should brake faster than any of the cars mentioned above, as its lighter, has more grip and more downforce and same quality brakes
Interesting, thanks.
*shrug* It is something of a complicated matter to discuss but graphics don't matter that much for a game like this when you are actually playing the game, as long as the physics, the cars' models (great in FM2 and LFS, for instance) and the gameplay is good. I could care less as long as either of the above factors is great and gets the job done.
A spectacular landscape or eyecandy features don't mean much to me. Currently I am a "specialized gamer" and only play racing games and -from time to time- XBLA games and I can tell you that, in fact, I rather prefer functional and logical graphics. Good lighting doesn't hurt also. It's definitely a plus but spectacular landscapes and not beneficial eye candy features aren't.
I am not a PC man so I rarely use my PC to play, but my laptop PC (1,8 GHz, 1 GB Ram, some mediocre GPU) runs Live for Speed smooth enough at 1024x768, and while the graphics are far from sharp and full of jaggies at the end of the day I still think that this game kicks ass.
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Excellent post. IRL the fastest cars have the best brakes. Not that the lowest common denominator (everyday cars) decides the minimum braking power because it's a serious matter and brakes play a huge role in road safety but that's (almost) a general rule of thumb I guess.I didn't specifically refer to the R8 in the video, i was speaking generally.
Generally, GT games offer to much grip, even with the worst tires, the handling characteristics are often singificantly better than in real life. Anything above the "stock" tires in GT4 results in beyond supercar handling.
But since you two are talking about the video, i just downloaded it and took a look. Firstly, im just gonna say that unless you didn't know the R8 infeneon LMP1 is the Le Mans prototype race car.
At 2:11 in the video, the game clock is at 1:27:6XX, hes going 135mph, braking at 70ish percent, reduces him to 71mph after 2.4 seconds. 64mph down, not even fully braking!!
At 3:23 in the video, game clock is at 2:39:06X, hes going at 155mph, he starts braking fully, 2:41:2XX a mere 2 seconds later, hes going 82mph, he reduced his speed with 73mph in 2 seconds!!!!
73mph deacceleration in 2 seconds will rip some internal organ out of you
This is a car with normal brake calipers, not the ceramic brakes used in supercars and racecars.
In comparison, Autobild did 0-60-0 tests a year or so ago. These tests included all kinds of cars. Here was the fastest braking cars in 60-0:
911 Turbo (ceramic brakes) 2,46
Carrera GT(ceramic brakes): 2,58
Gallardo (ceramic brakes) 2,39
SLR McLAren (ceramic brakes) 2,52
F430 F1 (ceramic brakes) 2,48
Merc CLK DTM AMG (ceramic brakes) 2,40
As far as the R8 Race car goes, it should brake faster than any of the cars mentioned above, as its lighter, has more grip and more downforce and same quality brakes
Anyways, back on GT4, I told someone -who happens to be a GT4 fa- that the Dodge Viper RT/10 is, aesthetics wise, my favourite car ever made.
Then he gave me a link to a SRT-10 (one of the successors of the RT-10, although far from its prettiness and feminine forms, the GTS ACR is more beautiful) video featuring a GT4 replay and, to a lesser extent, its gameplay. The car brakes almost better than a F1 car! Take into account that this link is from some random video, I haven't been nitpicking to back up my thoughts. Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSUrbaxl0aA
PS: Bonus video. As weird as it sounds even a young Jeremy Clarkson loves the Viper RT/10 (it's an american car, remember) and bows to the evidence;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMp_o9-0I_g
Good afternoon.
So what about the sim aspect of the GTHD shown in the Audi R8 video now after Ostepop's lecture on ceramic brakes?
Oh and I'm asking you about how different Audi R8 and Audi R8 Infineon LMP1 are in the brakes too.
The Audi R8 is an amazing road going car but you can't compare it to a prototype car whom expensiveness is paramount. The Audi R8 Infineon incorporates an array of cutting edge technology and its costs run into millions of euros while the Audi R8 is great for what it offers and I am pretty sure is hell of fun to drive, but most probably you are not going to race in a track everyday with it.
Here is a cool link, you can see the brakes perfectly:
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/10/02/paris-motor-show-audi-r8-cutaways/2
The Audi R8 prototype car has paddle shifters and carbon brakes, like Formula One cars. I am not sure about LMP cars but F1 cars can slowdown from 130 mph to a standstill in just 55 meters (1.9 seconds, beat that) = 5g (forcing teardrops from diver's eyes), but it's a secret technology.
Cheers.
Doesn't really matter does it? You can tune cars in GT4 quite a bit.
Do you want me to test a car for braking power? Just pick one that is in GT4, and I'll test it. There's a Viper brake test in the first section of licences, where if I recall correctly you have 1km to accellerate as fast as possible, and then have to stop the car in a 30m zone at the end of that 1km, as fast as possible. The stopping distance was well over 100m, I think about 130m at least, but it could be more. There will be videos of that somewhere on the net I'm sure too (as licence golds are heavily contested). (yes, I'm one of those with all golds on both GT3 and GT4)
Another little something I would like to point out is that the weight transfers under braking in GT4 are absolutely excellent. The car becomes wonderfully unstable and the feedback of that in the car's grip and in the force feedback wheel is excellent. I had been playing Forza 1 for a while, and then went back to GT4. The grip level of the tires is interesting in Forza, and although I'm not fully convinced yet it is more realistic, it's certainly interesting. But in terms of springs, weight transfers and so on, GT4 is waaaay beyond. You feel it instantaneously when you go back from the one to the other.
And GT:HD, well, that's a whole other ballgame. Nearly all problems in GT4 have been fixed in terms of handling, if you ask me. It's just awesome and I can't wait for some more tracks, and some multiplayer action!
And finally, I'd like to point out that a lot of the PC car sims do not simulate 729 cars. But that's a whole other issue.
Ok Arwin, that's fair of you! Thank you very much. :smile: The car in the video is fully modified, I must admit, but it's still a SRT-10.
I also prefer the metrics system over the imperial system, I'm accustomed to it.
Well, braking distances depend on the tire starting temperature (optimum performance is within the 74º to 85º C range, I've read that in an old issue of a cars' magazine) and the friction coefficient of the surface. I don't know if this is fully simulated in the game but up to a 10% variance would be fine.
afaik, the RT/10 is not featured in the game but the SRT-10 is, as shown in the video. stock SRT10's braking distances are, more or less, 70 mph (112 Km/h) to 0 in a mere 47 meters
. Braking distances were far from amazing in the good ol' RT/10 and maybe that's the reason why they improved them a LOT. Regarding the RT/10, nothing is perfect.Since you seem to like testing things from a scientific point of view I am glad you bring this matter up. It's a feature I miss in Forza 2, some kind of Driving School would be great. LFS also features this, and while Forza is a young franchise it adds to the gameplay and longevity of the game. I love FM2's career mode but, structurally wise, it's the same of the past. Things are better organized than they were, though.
Btw, I didn't know you were that good, I just read a post of yours where you stated something along the lines of "I consider myself an expert in GT4" but just that. I'm also becoming an expert in Forza 2, yup.
Looks like Polyphony is heading in the right direction. GT5 is, apparently, going to be huge but more importantly I hope they get rid of the glitches and some physics issues.
Featuring 725 cars again is not necessary. What's the point of having at your disposal 40 Evo models and 50 Civics? Absurd. Sry if I sounded like the average hater but that's true, imo. More Lambos, PORSCHES!! and Ferraris, please.
Too many cars' models don't add to the realism of the game.
Good evening m8
I have to disagree, while it models weight transfers good, its very downplayed. In real life the weight transfer under braking is far more hard hitting. Both from braking and from acceleration in corners i think is to much downplayed.
This thought, might again be an issue with to much grip thought.
Mintmaster
Veteran
Why do you guys say that? You do realize that you have to dissipate over 4 times the energy for the former, right?
If you had the perfect disc brakes that made your braking entirely limited by tire grip, and you had lots of downforce, only then would it be much quicker breaking from 155 to 95 instead of 60 to 0. However, the R8 has neither of the two. In case you were going to mentions air/rolling resistance acting like a supplementary brake, it would barely make a difference.
Data also proves you wrong. Googling some 60-0 and 100-0 braking tests, the 100-0 tends to average a tad slower deceleration for many different cars.
It's true that 2.5g isn't going to rip your organs out, but it is very unreasonable for an Audi R8 to have that much grip. I think your calculations are wrong, though, and it's an average of 1.7g, but that's still very unreasonable. All the supercars that Cyan listed and more slow down at a rate of barely over 1g, which makes perfect sense since 300-foot skidpad tests show around 1g of tire traction also.
GT4 is definately not a pure sim, but you can't really blame them (and FM2 may or may not be any better). When most people drive true sims, they think the cars have terrible handling and even believe it's unrealistic. It's just really hard to project the true sense of speed and acceleration of a real car, so they tend to be exaggerated a bit.
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