More sales charts... (US)
- Thread starter London Geezer
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Thats because we are comparing the recent monthly sales. FF12's total monthly sales are divided.
It was released on Oct31 in the US and the monthly sales of that time express only the fresh interest of US gamers only. Japanese market performance is toned down during Octomber because it was released long before the US. It was selling faster in Japan during their release period. Also its not even released in EU.
At the same time we are comparing its sales with another game (Gears of War) during the same period which was released simultaneously in all territories expressing the fresh interest of worldwide gamers.
And although you have a point about PS2's userbase, still its on an old hardware which is supposed to be wearing out in interest.The same game could have sold much more if it was released 4 years ago than it does today.
To understand what I am saying as a great example take FFX and GT3's first sales in 2001.
They made a record of sales in the first weeks becoming some of the fastest selling games in history despite that the PS2 had a smaller userbase then. These records become a thing of the past despite the huge collected userbase as the console becomes old and we enter the next gen era. This happens with every console.
Gears of War on the 360 is the same thing now which is bound to have a newly and freshly generated interest from gamers. Just like the PS2 back in 2001.
The userbase also doesnt increase the game sales proportionately. After some certain amount of owners/userbase the game sales increase in a diminishing manner relative to every added conbsole owner until the difference is too small.
Thats why if you check game sales you will notice that there isnt a HUGE difference between the sales of 1st/2d gen games and of last gen games of the same console.
So there are 3 things you should consider including ofcourse the userbase you mentioned
1) Userbase - increase sales
2) Relation between userbase increase and game sales increase - non proportional relation:diminishing increase in software sales (sales increase but by less)
3) The age of the console. If we already entered the next gen era, market performance of old console games is reduced further.
So what I think we should do (and probably I shouldnt have jumped to the conclusion too soon either), we should collect the first month sales of each territory on both games and compare by giving the appropriate weights to the userbase and age of each console.
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I could buy it at 20% off but it's still not worth it
As I've mentioned in other threads, I work at a Walmart in Electronics. The store I'm at has had a very limited number of ps3's. A spattering of 20 gigs every once in a while and some 60 gigs... I'm unsure of the exact number but I'd say less then 25 total.
Today, 2 60 gig units were returned, unopened. One of them was bought again within minutes; I put the other in the dispaly case where it remained all night.
Off topic, but stuffing those beasts in the display case is an exercise in frustration. Our store already gets too much crap that no one wants sent to so it's the game case is overfilled. I had to move the psp's to a different case where they're now covering half the guitar hero 2 display just to make room for one bloated ps3 box.
For our store, the ps3 (including consoles, games, and accessories sales) has definately not been worth the amount of work (and time, and money, and mostly wasted shelf space) that's gone into it.
As I've mentioned in other threads, I work at a Walmart in Electronics. The store I'm at has had a very limited number of ps3's. A spattering of 20 gigs every once in a while and some 60 gigs... I'm unsure of the exact number but I'd say less then 25 total.
Today, 2 60 gig units were returned, unopened. One of them was bought again within minutes; I put the other in the dispaly case where it remained all night.
Off topic, but stuffing those beasts in the display case is an exercise in frustration. Our store already gets too much crap that no one wants sent to so it's the game case is overfilled. I had to move the psp's to a different case where they're now covering half the guitar hero 2 display just to make room for one bloated ps3 box.
For our store, the ps3 (including consoles, games, and accessories sales) has definately not been worth the amount of work (and time, and money, and mostly wasted shelf space) that's gone into it.
I'd take the cash even if it means ExtremeTech will call me a loser.
I'll buy and then sell it to you for a mere $2000. Cash upfront.
Seriously, it's annoying (and silly) that we have 10 or so display spaces set aside for games for a system for which the user base in our community is approximately zero.
I'll buy and then sell it to you for a mere $2000. Cash upfront.
Seriously, it's annoying (and silly) that we have 10 or so display spaces set aside for games for a system for which the user base in our community is approximately zero.
I'll buy and then sell it to you for a mere $2000. Cash upfront.
Seriously, it's annoying (and silly) that we have 10 or so display spaces set aside for games for a system for which the user base in our community is approximately zero.
The thing just launched, of course the userbase in your community is approximately zero. Sounds to me like you're just bitter for your own reasons, such as "stuffing PS3's in the display case"... The userbase won't remain zero for very long, so what's the problem?
I'll buy and then sell it to you for a mere $2000. Cash upfront.
Seriously, it's annoying (and silly) that we have 10 or so display spaces set aside for games for a system for which the user base in our community is approximately zero.
$2000? You are forcing me to sell my body here. No way. Well if thats how you want it stay with your burden
I didnt quite get whats going on though. Is the problem limited demand, the shortages or a combination of both?
Substitute "amused" for "bitter" and you'll be closer to the truth.
Well, the Wii has close to zero userbase but we've sold more games for it then we have for the ps3. otoh, the Wii does have a dumber name, so that should somehow factor into the equation, too.
The problem with the ps3, from a business perspective, is that it's currently imposible to make a worthwhile profit from it. The profit margin from the hardware is not a huge amount, particularly when the number sold is so low and especially when people return a high percentage of them for a full refund a few weeks later because their ebay reserve price wasn't met. Profit margin percentage from games and accessories is higher but since no one's buying them we don't get any profit from that sector either.
Furthermore, the space taken up by games which don't sell could instead be used for games which will sell.
Therefore, the store loses money because space for profitable items is taken up by items which generate practically zero income.
It's also not good that this happens at the busiest time of the year. Surveys indicate that ~25% of all Christmas gifts in the US will be electronics so the "loss of profit" effect is magnified.
I'll also mention that I'm not bitter at all. I don't own any consoles (other than an old Atari 2600 picked up on a whim) and don't intend to get any, either. I don't a have a horse in the race. My role is to tie a rope across the track and pull it taut as the horses draw near in their mad dash and then heckle mercilessly as they flail around.
Watching the ps3 launch reminds me of every time a new Battlefield game comes out for the pc. I know better then to buy it myself but I get a lot of free entertainment by watching the inevitable train wreck.
Well, the Wii has close to zero userbase but we've sold more games for it then we have for the ps3. otoh, the Wii does have a dumber name, so that should somehow factor into the equation, too.
The problem with the ps3, from a business perspective, is that it's currently imposible to make a worthwhile profit from it. The profit margin from the hardware is not a huge amount, particularly when the number sold is so low and especially when people return a high percentage of them for a full refund a few weeks later because their ebay reserve price wasn't met. Profit margin percentage from games and accessories is higher but since no one's buying them we don't get any profit from that sector either.
Furthermore, the space taken up by games which don't sell could instead be used for games which will sell.
Therefore, the store loses money because space for profitable items is taken up by items which generate practically zero income.
It's also not good that this happens at the busiest time of the year. Surveys indicate that ~25% of all Christmas gifts in the US will be electronics so the "loss of profit" effect is magnified.
I'll also mention that I'm not bitter at all. I don't own any consoles (other than an old Atari 2600 picked up on a whim) and don't intend to get any, either. I don't a have a horse in the race. My role is to tie a rope across the track and pull it taut as the horses draw near in their mad dash and then heckle mercilessly as they flail around.
Watching the ps3 launch reminds me of every time a new Battlefield game comes out for the pc. I know better then to buy it myself but I get a lot of free entertainment by watching the inevitable train wreck.
DuckThor Evil
Legend
I'm sorry but I still fail to understand what is the point. How does the U.S sales of Gears express something else than U.S interests? Why do we even need to mention other markets when we are talking about U.S numbers?
Thanks for the reply :smile:
Just out of curiosity, who dictates the shelf space for PS3 games then, your managers? If so, why don't they just dedicate the space to games you say "will sell"?
If somehow Sony dictates how much space you need to dedicate to PS3, do they not give incentives? I would have thought a store wouldn't bother dedicating shelf space to something that doesn't sell unless it was being influenced quite heavily from the-powers-that-be...
Just out of curiosity, who dictates the shelf space for PS3 games then, your managers? If so, why don't they just dedicate the space to games you say "will sell"?
If somehow Sony dictates how much space you need to dedicate to PS3, do they not give incentives? I would have thought a store wouldn't bother dedicating shelf space to something that doesn't sell unless it was being influenced quite heavily from the-powers-that-be...
I wonder if anyone actually reads my long posts.
Clearly, much of the initial demand was from ebayers who wanted to flip the console for profit. They've found that the number of people willing to pay $1,000+ for a game console is even more limited then the number willing to pay $600 for one.
That being said, they'd still have sold out all they've made even if only actual gamers were buying. If they'd actually hit their forecasted production they'd have sold all of them, too. I don't quite understand why.
I have some puzzlement about why anyone wants the ps3 as a games machine right this second:
I can find only one good reason for getting a ps3 right now:
I hope people notice the strong emphasis I've made on "right now". The ps3 is going to be a fine console sometime next year after the price drops and there's a collection of decent games available. Why anyone is in a hurry to get one right now is a mystery. If money's no object then fine, get one. Otherwise, not so fine.
If anyone can explain to me what makes the ps3 worth five or six Benjamins right now, I'd appreciate it.
$2000? You are forcing me to sell my body here. No way. Well if thats how you want it stay with your burden
I didnt quite get whats going on though. Is the problem limited demand, the shortages or a combination of both?
Clearly, much of the initial demand was from ebayers who wanted to flip the console for profit. They've found that the number of people willing to pay $1,000+ for a game console is even more limited then the number willing to pay $600 for one.
That being said, they'd still have sold out all they've made even if only actual gamers were buying. If they'd actually hit their forecasted production they'd have sold all of them, too. I don't quite understand why.
I have some puzzlement about why anyone wants the ps3 as a games machine right this second:
- The games selection is limited.
- Of that limited selection, many are available on other systems.
- Of those available on other systems, they'll look the same or even better on that other system.
- The one standout exclusive, Resistance, get kicked in the shins by Gears. (Or so I've gathered... never played either myself.)
- The cost of the x360 premium system plus Gears is less then the cost of the lower end ps3 system alone.
- For $600, you can build a good gaming pc.
I can find only one good reason for getting a ps3 right now:
- It's an awesome Blu-ray player... possibly the best one for the lowest price.
I hope people notice the strong emphasis I've made on "right now". The ps3 is going to be a fine console sometime next year after the price drops and there's a collection of decent games available. Why anyone is in a hurry to get one right now is a mystery. If money's no object then fine, get one. Otherwise, not so fine.
If anyone can explain to me what makes the ps3 worth five or six Benjamins right now, I'd appreciate it.
It was a similar case in the past with the PS2.
Probable explanations could be these
1)Possitive future expectations of games and improvements
2)Blu Ray
3)The price itself offers "information". If its expensive it must be for a reason from a casual point of view.
4)Bigger and easily upgradable HDD
5)Adverdised media features. Remember that people respond to adverdising. They arent always rational (but neither the people who compare whats currently on PS3 with 360 and jump to fast conclusions that PS3 is crap are rational)
6)Games coming soon (Motorstorm and Heavenly Sword for example)
7)Incomplete information about whats available on console
8)False information
9)PS1 and PS2 success
10)Backwards compatibility
11)SIXAXIS-Motion sensing=Wii features, media features and next gen graphics a la 360 together on one system
12)Linux and USB compatibility
13)High Definition output 1080p adverdised
I expect combinations of some of these reasons
Skip to the last paragraph if you only want the main point.
When the ps3 was launched, we got a long packet of information. (Which factors in with my "ps3 isn't worth the trouble" idea.) They mentioned that they want people to start to think of Walmart as the place to go for the latest goods. In the same info packet, they said to direct people to the Xbox 360 since we wouldn't have enough ps3's to go around. (Which factors into my "this is more amusing then a barrel full of monkeys" response.)
Shoot, I'm rambling again... anyways, point is Walmart will stock it because it's the latest thing in consoles and the sucessor to the best selling console of all time. People understand when we say, "We don't have any consoles and don't know when we'll get some because Sony can't build the console they designed" because they already know it's in short supply.
We'd be met with incredulity if we said, "We're not offering them at all." And what are they chances they'd later go to a Walmart if they want, say, a new hdtv or an ipod?
When the ps3 was launched, we got a long packet of information. (Which factors in with my "ps3 isn't worth the trouble" idea.) They mentioned that they want people to start to think of Walmart as the place to go for the latest goods. In the same info packet, they said to direct people to the Xbox 360 since we wouldn't have enough ps3's to go around. (Which factors into my "this is more amusing then a barrel full of monkeys" response.)
Shoot, I'm rambling again... anyways, point is Walmart will stock it because it's the latest thing in consoles and the sucessor to the best selling console of all time. People understand when we say, "We don't have any consoles and don't know when we'll get some because Sony can't build the console they designed" because they already know it's in short supply.
We'd be met with incredulity if we said, "We're not offering them at all." And what are they chances they'd later go to a Walmart if they want, say, a new hdtv or an ipod?
i remember last year searching for a xbox360 . I went in a CD/DVD/Game store and i asked for a xbox360 . to my surprise they had one just available. The store owner told me he had one availabble the whole week but nobody asked for it. But I understand why, the first month , xbox360 was impossible to find and most people where bored of asking every shop if they had stock, so nobody asked for it anymore even tough they needed one. Perception of wanting one but already know they wont sell it cause its out of stock.i ebayed the sucker on a 24hjour auction and made 200euro profit.. aah that was a nice day
Ok, which means that it's Walmart's choice to dedicate shelf space. Therefore there is obviously an interest in dedicating shelf space to PS3, which is beyond the simple profit-making business view (whereas you say that it doesn't make business sense as it doesn't make a profit). Obviously Walmart's managers feel that the potential of the PS3 (which is obviously there, being the successor of the two best selling consoles of all time) is just too big to let go, whether it does make a profit to them now or not. :smile:
It's amusing for you, but really, it's not unexpected, from a business point of view, and totally understandable.
ZoinKs! I thought Walmart has centralized purchasing. The allotment is also decided at HQ. Am I correct ? If so, your purchaser will probably have Walmart specific reasons and numbers to justify for stocking PS3.
As for why people buy PS3, the demand has been cultivated over the months and years. People buy stuff looking at the total package (not just individual bullet points).
As for why people buy PS3, the demand has been cultivated over the months and years. People buy stuff looking at the total package (not just individual bullet points).
ZoinKs! I thought Walmart has centralized purchasing. The allotment is also decided at HQ. Am I correct ? If so, your purchaser will probably have Walmart specific reasons and numbers to justify for stocking PS3.
As for why people buy PS3, the demand has been cultivated over the months and years. People buy stuff looking at the total package (not just individual bullet points).
Exactly. Value is totally personal.
Was there any point in buying a PS2 at launch? Not really, except for DVD playback and maybe Tekken Tag or SSX... Not more so than PS3, in my view.... And not more so that most other consoles. Launches never give an accurate view of what library a console will have in the following 5-6 years, and obviously there are always people nagging about there not being much point in buying the console at launch.
So the whole "it's not worth it now" discussion is rather useless. Early adopters (actually "innovators") buy the console at launch because they just really want it. They're the vast minority and they obviously feel that the console has enough "value" for them to justify queuing up for hours and spending lots of cash.
Questioning one's perception of value makes as much sense as telling someone his opinion of something is "wrong", which is a fundamentally flawed comment.
I should study for a final exam but this is more interesting then rote memorization.
Nesh, a number of those reasons, such as games coming soon and expectations of improvement, fail the right now parameter. Also, I'd had in mind (but not mentioned in text, my bad) that I was talking about someone who knows enough about the consoles to make informed decisions about them without succumbing to hype or advertising.
But I think you're right... those things you listed all factor in.
I guess what I really want is someone who's spent or is planning to spend the money on the ps3 to point out some specific thing and say, "That's what made it worth it and here's why I couldn't wait."
At these prices, we're basically talking about a luxury good. I suspect that rationality and need aren't the driving forces here. I know if I had the money for it, I'd build an uber pc that'd run every game at 2560x1600 with maxed aa. Rationally, I don't need a system like that but I'd still want one.
Nesh, a number of those reasons, such as games coming soon and expectations of improvement, fail the right now parameter. Also, I'd had in mind (but not mentioned in text, my bad) that I was talking about someone who knows enough about the consoles to make informed decisions about them without succumbing to hype or advertising.
But I think you're right... those things you listed all factor in.
I guess what I really want is someone who's spent or is planning to spend the money on the ps3 to point out some specific thing and say, "That's what made it worth it and here's why I couldn't wait."
At these prices, we're basically talking about a luxury good. I suspect that rationality and need aren't the driving forces here. I know if I had the money for it, I'd build an uber pc that'd run every game at 2560x1600 with maxed aa. Rationally, I don't need a system like that but I'd still want one.
That's your value judgement. If I needed a PC, I would spend the money to buy a Mac instead.Walmart should have a data-driven purchase system. Most demand models I have seen are based on large numbers (not looking at individuals) because there will be nuances. If you want an intuitive feel, the correct methodology is to do a focus group (e.g., conjoint analysis) with the competing products in front of the subject. In fact, you see this everyday in your own Walmart store.
Asking it in the forum, and posting your own purchase rationalization, would not get you what you want. I have many reasons to own a PS3, but you may not understand/appreciate it.
