Resistance: FOM fits on a standard DVD, Blu-Ray game uses 17gb of garbage padding!

[Ruined]

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/26/resistance-17-75gb-of-garbage/

Resistance: Fall of Man was billed to be the defining game for why Blu-ray exists in the first place. Resistance developers Insomniac stated that the game took up 22GB of space and that all those bits and bytes were necessary to make the game work. It would seem that ripping the disk in Linux shows otherwise.

A NeoGAF forum member by the name of squatingyeti posted a long list of padding files on the Resistance disk; the padding took up approximately 17.75GB of space. Padding is frequently used to push data to the outer edges of the disk to improve read times, but Blu-ray is supposed to be a constant read over the entire disk.

Sony misleads its fanbase yet again. Resistance would have fit just fine on a standard DVD since in reality it takes up less than 5gb of space, not 22gb. Not surprised here.

 

[MechanizedDeath]

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/26/resistance-17-75gb-of-garbage/



Sony misleads its fanbase yet again. Resistance would have fit just fine on a standard DVD since in reality it takes up less than 5gb of space, not 22gb. Not surprised here.

Odd, the ISO is 17GB. The ISO of Genji is 12GB. Where's there room for padding in there? More importantly, why? The ISO for Madden is 7GB, for instance. PEACE.

 

[nonamer]

Wow, so sources from neogaf are credible sources? And the thread was locked there too.

 

[archangelmorph]

With all due respect..

I'm assuming the data on the disc is encrpyted so how in the world would this guy know which data was padding or not??

Also with Insomniacconfirming that all the audio for all the regions is included on the same disc then I can assume that his "guestimates" (if they even qualify.. I would assume they are more like made up speculation) are probably a little dodgy..

 

[Mmmkay]

Joystiq I salute you and your journalistic integrity!

Not only have they misreported the GAF thread, they also ignored Ted Price's more recent comments about Resistance shipping at around 16GB. If you're not interested in learning what the actual disc usage is, please look away now:

The numbers associated with each file are the LBA index, each LBA has a block size = 2kb. Determining the difference between one LBA index with the next indicates the number of blocks a given file occupies. This means that:

Padding file size = 32MB.
Total padding = 1.9GB.
Total FMV = 7GB.
Audio = 2.24GB. (605MB for music and English language only)
Game Assets = 6.12GB.

 

[nintenho]

4394880 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_0.bin
4615616 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_1.bin
5258560 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_10.bin
5336160 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_11.bin
5442304 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_12.bin
5495488 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_13.bin
5561440 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_14.bin
5626784 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_15.bin
5688160 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_16.bin
5765280 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_17.bin
5889024 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_18.bin
5942112 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_19.bin
4718912 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_2.bin
5987712 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_20.bin
6038464 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_21.bin
6102080 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_22.bin
6149984 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_23.bin
6214304 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_24.bin
6286304 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_25.bin
6343936 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_26.bin
6437824 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_27.bin
6482336 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_28.bin
6594560 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_29.bin
4762144 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_3.bin
6618720 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_30.bin
6671936 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_31.bin
6732512 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_32.bin
6781056 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_33.bin
6824832 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_34.bin
6865280 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_35.bin
7018656 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_36.bin
7124640 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_37.bin
7216960 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_38.bin
7305696 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_39.bin
4869696 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_4.bin
7394528 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_40.bin
7430784 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_41.bin
7465216 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_42.bin
7499808 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_43.bin
7566848 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_44.bin
7633632 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_45.bin
7699616 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_46.bin
7770880 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_47.bin
7841952 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_48.bin
7912320 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_49.bin
4957888 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_5.bin
7971520 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_50.bin
8030560 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_51.bin
8088992 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_52.bin
8143264 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_53.bin
8197344 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_54.bin
8251008 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_55.bin
8326752 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_56.bin
8402272 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_57.bin
8476864 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_58.bin
8535808 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_59.bin
5006176 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_6.bin
5059168 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_7.bin
5115296 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_8.bin
5189440 , >:\PS3_GAME\USRDIR\packed\movies\muxed\ntsc\auto_g enerated_padding_9.bin

So they put something like this in the center to make the game read on the outside of the disk with padding?

And there was a comparison that 1up did (just by looking at the surface of the disk) that showed other PS3 launch games would use about 1/3 of the disk space compared to Resistence which took up the whole disk.

I mean I understand the motivation to make a game that shows "bigger is better" but this would be very annoying and as far as I know trivial.

Granted, I like console f@nboyism wars but this is a company selling you a product.

 

[Clockwork]

Joystiq I salute you and your journalistic integrity!

Not only have they misreported the GAF thread, they also ignored Ted Price's more recent comments about Resistance shipping at around 16GB. If you're not interested in learning what the actual disc usage is, please look away now:

The numbers associated with each file are the LBA index, each LBA has a block size = 2kb. Determining the difference between one LBA index with the next indicates the number of blocks a given file occupies. This means that:

Padding file size = 32MB.
Total padding = 1.9GB.
Total FMV = 7GB.
Audio = 2.24GB. (605MB for music and English language only)
Game Assets = 6.12GB.

Yeah, Joystiq messed up big time. It's really sad.

 

[Bohdy]

Why is there padding at all if Blu-Ray is CAV?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Joystiq I salute you and your journalistic integrity!

At least they put a question mark in their title, unlike Ruined who titled this as though a fact.

Padding file size = 32MB.
Total padding = 1.9GB.
Total FMV = 7GB.
Audio = 2.24GB. (605MB for music and English language only)
Game Assets = 6.12GB.

What do you mean by padding file size? Are there 1.9GBs of files added that don't do anything?

It can also be argued that, lose the multi-national audio and HD FMV, you could get it onto 1 DVD. What we get then is an argument of whether HD FMVs, international region-free disks, and the like are 'next-gen features', as you need extra storage to enable these things. Not really an argument worth having, especially when we see a 3 disc XB360 game

There's also nothing here about redundancy to aid seek times? Would those show up in an ISO grab?

 

[nonamer]

Why is there padding at all if Blu-Ray is CAV?

CLV you mean.

 

[Mmmkay]

What do you mean by padding file size? Are there 1.9GBs of files added that don't do anything?

When you arrange the data in order of LBA (a sequential view of the disc's data track I suppose), each FMV is spaced by a "auto_generated_padding_XX.bin" file. I'm not sure of the motivations for this, but it's there. Here's what it looks like:

It can also be argued that, lose the multi-national audio and HD FMV, you could get it onto 1 DVD. What we get then is an argument of whether HD FMVs, international region-free disks, and the like are 'next-gen features', as you need extra storage to enable these things. Not really an argument worth having, especially when we see a 3 disc XB360 game

Not touching that one

There's also nothing here about redundancy to aid seek times? Would those show up in an ISO grab?

When GTA did it, there were duplicate archive files spread over the disc. Resistance has just one big archive file, so any redundancy if there doesn't show up from a view of the disc we have. If there were a significant difference between the compressed and uncompressed size of the ISO then that would be a good indication, since the compression algorithms are good at picking out redundant data iirc.

 

[Bohdy]

CLV you mean.

Yep, my bad. Got those two acronyms mixed up.

 

[Tap In]

It can also be argued that, lose the multi-national audio and HD FMV, you could get it onto 1 DVD. What we get then is an argument of whether HD FMVs, international region-free disks, and the like are 'next-gen features', as you need extra storage to enable these things.

Great point.

that alone makes any argument or for that matter touting of disc game size (as we've seen repeatedly over the months) ridiculous.

 

[infinity4]

blu-ray is still useful, it reduces noise level as well as very constant reading compared to dvd 12x for 360s

 

[Sankari]

Is it okay to cut features just to get it to fit on DVD? In my opinion, definately not.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

When you arrange the data in order of LBA (a sequential view of the disc's data track I suppose), each FMV is spaced by a "auto_generated_padding_XX.bin" file. I'm not sure of the motivations for this, but it's there. Here's what it looks like:

Thanks for the explanation. So there's something like 50 FMVs, each with 32 MBs of space between them. I'd love to know the reasoning for that! I guess that provides quite an obvious space between tracks if you were looking for a space to mark the begining of an FMV, but I can't think why you'd want that.

 

[pegisys]

I haven't played R:FOM and have only seen it from a far, but from what I have seen of it, it looks if they used the ingame assets for the cut-scenes.

as I said I haven't played the game but is there anything that the cut-scenes do that can't be done in real-time, if not I wonder why they used FMV, or are some of the cut-scenes real-time and some FMV

 

[PeterT]

Padding file size = 32MB.
Total padding = 1.9GB.
Total FMV = 7GB.
Audio = 2.24GB. (605MB for music and English language only)
Game Assets = 6.12GB.

These are the exact values. Nice that we now get threads that were locked even on GAF.

Also, I don't believe that they added the 32 MB files just to increase size. I'm willing to bet that there is a technical explanation for them.

 

[DeanoC]

I haven't played R:FOM and have only seen it from a far, but from what I have seen of it, it looks if they used the ingame assets for the cut-scenes.

as I said I haven't played the game but is there anything that the cut-scenes do that can't be done in real-time, if not I wonder why they used FMV, or are some of the cut-scenes real-time and some FMV

Memory and hiding load times... Generally it takes alot more RAM to hold the assets for a 3D scene than playback an FMV. This is also useful, as you can load some stuff (the next level etc.) will displaying the FMV.

 

[Rolf N]

Odd, the ISO is 17GB. The ISO of Genji is 12GB. Where's there room for padding in there? More importantly, why?

It's a secret conspiracy thing and you'll probably get killed tomorrow because you know too much.
Anyway, the thing is that it's impossible for any game to actually benefit from being on BR. Nobody needs a medium with more capacity than DVD to make games, but you see, Sony still did the BR thing. Because Sony knew people would find out that none of the games need more space than a DVD -- because as we've learned it's impossible for a game to need more space than a DVD -- they require their game developers to fill the discs up with convincing amounts of JPEGs of Shane Bettenhausen.

The thing certain individuals *waves* find so interesting about this is that 600$ is too expensive for the average consumer yadda yadda and it was all for the blue diode man, and it has just been proven it was all for naught.

PS: IBTL lolz.