PS3 in the US press...

[pipo]

Not that online gaming with Live is bad in my experience. My experience has been the opposite and being quite pleased with the general performance of online games with Live considering the fact they are not using a dedicated server/facility model like PC games but allow in many cases for users to host games on their console and with their own local connection.

It's game (and ISP of course) related too. One of my friends lives at the other side of the world and we can even play Table Tennis. And that's a pretty fast game.

Yesterday I played some Lost Planet and there were people from Japan to the US and a couple of locals (Europe). No probs at all.

I like the peer to peer model by the way. Dedicated server will be switched off sometime. There's no Dreamcast game I can play online anymore and sometimes we (meaning me and my mates) would really like to play one or two of those.

I was wondering what the more open PS network means in relation to cheating / hacking by the way. It's up to the devs to take care of that right?

 

[pipo]

I'm sorry but I would like to a link or some sort of proof which backs up your speculation. Do you have sales numbers for the Europe? Basically I'm not disagreeing with you, I just wan't to know how you come up with that conclusion?

Seconded. I have serious doubts about the 'sell very poorly' part. Especially the last couple of months.

Edit - the UK will do fine indeed. *cough* http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=21259 *cough*

 

[avaya]

I thought it was common knowledge that across Europe PS2 and DSL each do 400k a month, while 360 is less than a quarter of that. I don't have links to provide hard evidence but certainly across Europe 360 is no where near the PS2's level (where as in the US it tracks closely to the PS2 today)

What is the 360's LTD in Europe?

 

[PiNkY]

I thought it was common knowledge that across Europe PS2 and DSL each do 400k a month, while 360 is less than a quarter of that. I don't have links to provide hard evidence but certainly across Europe 360 is no where near the PS2's level (where as in the US it tracks closely to the PS2 today)

What is the 360's LTD in Europe?

This should be taken with a grain of salt. Firstly the PS2 numbers always quoted in this context come from SCEE (100K/week) and represent shipped units in Europe(all of it) + the Middle East + Africa + Large part of Asia(Russia, India, etc. etc.) + Australia + NZ + ( link ) which are then compared to summer sales of the 360 (when it had not even been launched in all EU countries (Poland, Hungary, etc. etc.). Probing the larger online game retailers (www.play.com, spielegrotte.de, etc.) 360's software seems to be selling at least on par with ps2 software, with the 360 leading hw wise.

 

[Paul_G]

Btw, this would be a good new thread: How much have you played live and what has your experience been in regards to a) features and b) gaming performance. On the later, how does it perform in games with people in your general local geographical area, and outside. Finally, what would you alter and add?

I have made a new thread with this in mind. You can find it here.

 

[one]

This should be taken with a grain of salt. Firstly the PS2 numbers always quoted in this context come from SCEE (100K/week) and represent shipped units in Europe(all of it) + the Middle East + Africa + Large part of Asia(Russia, India, etc. etc.) + Australia + NZ + ( link ) which are then compared to summer sales of the 360 (when it had not even been launched in all EU countries (Poland, Hungary, etc. etc.). Probing the larger online game retailers (www.play.com, spielegrotte.de, etc.) 360's software seems to be selling at least on par with ps2 software, with the 360 leading hw wise.

Really? It seems you're looking at wrong places...

France
http://jeux-france.com/news18089_top-ventes-fr-sem-n44-2006-.html
Germany
http://www.consolewars.de/news/13777/aktuelle_software-verkaufscharts_aus_deutschland/
Australia
http://www.gfk.com.au/Charts/Entertainment/Top 10 All Full Priced Games.htm

AFAICS in software charts the US and UK share the favor for 360, but not others.

 

[PiNkY]

Really? It seems you're looking at wrong places...

France
http://jeux-france.com/news18089_top-ventes-fr-sem-n44-2006-.html
Germany
http://www.consolewars.de/news/13777/aktuelle_software-verkaufscharts_aus_deutschland/
Australia
http://www.gfk.com.au/Charts/Entertainment/Top 10 All Full Priced Games.htm

AFAICS in software charts the US and UK share the favor for 360, but not others.

Might well be, I don't doubt that the PS2 market is still quite a bit larger then 360s in the EU. However the often quoted sales numbers cannot be compared for the single reason that Sony's Europe = World - Japan - U.S. - Canada - wherever they haven't released. Thus also the surprisingly large installed base of ps2 in Europe (more units than in the US).

 

[silhouette]

Taking the installed base into account, I am not sure how well software sells reflect the hardware sales, especially given that there are at least an order magnitude more PS2 than XB360 sold. Therefore, I do not think that software sells would reflect hardware sells. Take amazon for example. In their first 25 best sellers list , there are 4 PS2 games, 2 XB360 games, 7 DS games, 1 Gamecube and 1 Wii games on the list right now. Now, in hardware sells department, guess what, XB360 Premium is on a higher spot than PS2 (10 vs. 21), and I am not counting core sales at all. And, this has been going for at least a month maybe.

 

[one]

However the often quoted sales numbers cannot be compared for the single reason that Sony's Europe = World - Japan - U.S. - Canada - wherever they haven't released. Thus also the surprisingly large installed base of ps2 in Europe (more units than in the US).

Is it relevant to the discussion in this thread? I fail to see who quoted that Europe defined by SCEE.

The US and UK share the trend except for soccer/motorsports/TV-program-related games, but in other EU countries the segregation between PC gamers and console gamers is still clear, and PC gamers don't pay as much attention to the 360 portfolio as those in the US do. That is my impression so far. Feel free to correct it if you have any relevant data.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Is it relevant to the discussion in this thread? I fail to see who quoted that Europe defined by SCEE.

Ofcourse its relevant. If somebody is basing the European PS2 sales based on SCEE numbers, its very relevant. Sony's european shipments is just about all PAL countries + secam (France\russia). Weras the X360 EU numbers are based on the shpiments made to Europe. And then factor in that the X360 hasnt been released everywere yet.. Thus the numbers arent comparable.

 

[one]

Ofcourse its relevant. If somebody is basing the European PS2 sales based on SCEE numbers

Reality check: do you think the sales in Australia and Africa make the significant difference in these figures?

 

[Laa-Yosh]

which are then compared to summer sales of the 360 (when it had not even been launched in all EU countries (Poland, Hungary, etc. etc.).

The Xbox campaign here in Hungary is massive. I'm an audience that's pretty hard to reach, I don't watch much TV, I only listen to radios while driving to work, and I ignore banners instinctively, yet I've managed to see a lot of ads and heard about promotions with local celebs (for example a rapper and a box champion).
It won't make too much of a difference in the big numbers, but it goes to show just how big the push behind the Xbox is.

 

[22psi]

The Xbox campaign here in Hungary is massive. I'm an audience that's pretty hard to reach, I don't watch much TV, I only listen to radios while driving to work, and I ignore banners instinctively, yet I've managed to see a lot of ads and heard about promotions with local celebs (for example a rapper and a box champion).
It won't make too much of a difference in the big numbers, but it goes to show just how big the push behind the Xbox is.

oh, you are Hungarian! Very interesting...

 

[Powderkeg]

Reality check: do you think the sales in Australia and Africa make the significant difference in these figures?

Let's do another reality check.

How much do you think price figures into sales?

After all, if PS2 sales are so much larger than the 360 in part due to it's price compared to the 360 then there is no logical reason to think the PS3 would continue to have the success of the PS2.

 

[one]

Let's do another reality check.

How much do you think price figures into sales?

After all, if PS2 sales are so much larger than the 360 in part due to it's price compared to the 360 then there is no logical reason to think the PS3 would continue to have the success of the PS2.

Then you agree with those who say PS2 are selling much more than Xbox 360 even today in Europe. What's the problem with you? Have you read the last few pages of thread? Sorry, too funny.

Anyway, it's too offtopic now. "PS3 in the US press"

 

[Powderkeg]

Then you agree with those who say PS2 are selling much more than Xbox 360 even today in Europe.

Not denying it. I suspect that Volkswagon also outsells Bently for much the same reason.

What's the problem with you? Have you read the last few pages of thread? Sorry, too funny.

Not nearly as funny as thinking you have some valid point by comparing sales of a highly popular system that just barely costs over $100 to a brand new system that costs closer to $400, and then trying to conclude that a $600 brand new system will sell as well as the $100 one.

But hey, maybe it's just me that sees how ludicrous that is.

Anyway, it's too offtopic now. "PS3 in the US press"

That really hasn't been the topic of dicussion for quite some time. I think the PS3 is getting uniformly bad press in the US for failing to live up to Sony's promises and hype. It's a nearly unanimous conclusion that the PS3 doesn't offer anything that justifies the price tag when compared to the 360.

 

[crazygambit]

That really hasn't been the topic of dicussion for quite some time. I think the PS3 is getting uniformly bad press in the US for failing to live up to Sony's promises and hype. It's a nearly unanimous conclusion that the PS3 doesn't offer anything that justifies the price tag when compared to the 360.

I think Linux and Bluray (in that order) more than justify the price differential, but that's just IMO. Sony needs to market Linux more aggressively, it's a great differentiator in my view.

 

[RobertR1]

I think Linux and Bluray (in that order) more than justify the price differential, but that's just IMO. Sony needs to market Linux more aggressively, it's a great differentiator in my view.

The percentage of population that would benefit or heavily utilize Linux off the PS3 is a rounding error at best. This is a mass consumer product and the mass consumer simply does not care about Linux. They will use the PS3 as it's presented to them.

Analyzing such products from a mass consumer standpoint and an enthusiast standpoint often yields varied results.

Blu Ray remains to be seen. One of two things will happen. Either it'll become a mainstream product or remain niche. Surely in the early stages, BR player will appeal to enthsiasts but outside of that the interest is minimal. If BR does become mainstream, we're still looking at well in 2008 by which time we'll see standalone players that are likely cheaper and more desireable to the masses.

If you're an enthusiast like many on this forum and othesr alike, then yes, you could couple those in and justify the cost to yourself but I would not apply or even try to explain that reasoning to the mass consumer.

 

[crazygambit]

The percentage of population that would benefit or heavily utilize Linux off the PS3 is a rounding error at best. This is a mass consumer product and the mass consumer simply does not care about Linux. They will use the PS3 as it's presented to them.

Analyzing such products from a mass consumer standpoint and an enthusiast standpoint often yields varied results.

Blu Ray remains to be seen. One of two things will happen. Either it'll become a mainstream product or remain niche. Surely in the early stages, BR player will appeal to enthsiasts but outside of that the interest is minimal. If BR does become mainstream, we're still looking at well in 2008 by which time we'll see standalone players that are likely cheaper and more desireable to the masses.

If you're an enthusiast like many on this forum and othesr alike, then yes, you could couple those in and justify the cost to yourself but I would not apply or even try to explain that reasoning to the mass consumer.

True, but by that same reasoning is difficult to justify the much bigger price differential between the PS2 and the X360 for mainstream consumers. Which is probably the reason PS2 is still outselling the X360. Then again by the time this products become mainstream the price differential might be much smaller (Think X360 at $99 and PS3 at $129 or something along those lines). So my point stands. Right now this machines are made for enthusiasts, so I think Linux and Bluray still justify the price difference. And don't discount Linux. All it takes is for one (YDL for example) to come pre-installed and a decent marketing effort from Sony and a lot of people might end up using it. This isn't obscure PS2 Linux we're talking about. The install other OS option on the XMB will at least get some people curious about what that's about.

 

[RobertR1]

True, but by that same reasoning is difficult to justify the much bigger price differential between the PS2 and the X360 for mainstream consumers. Which is probably the reason PS2 is still outselling the X360. Then again by the time this products become mainstream the price differential might be much smaller (Think X360 at $99 and PS3 at $129 or something along those lines). So my point stands. Right now this machines are made for enthusiasts, so I think Linux and Bluray still justify the price difference. And don't discount Linux. All it takes is for one (YDL for example) to come pre-installed and a decent marketing effort from Sony and a lot of people might end up using it. This isn't obscure PS2 Linux we're talking about. The install other OS option on the XMB will at least get some people curious about what that's about.

The PS2 is outselling the 360 based on price. I seriously doubt that PS2 would outsell if it both were equally priced at either $129 or $399. A few friends of mine who are well off still belive that the 360 costs too much. They practically laugh at the PS3 price tag. In the end, consumers have a different pricing threshold for "gaming systems" than enthusiasts. Looking back at gaming console histories you can see the trend of sales increases, sharply in some cases, as price drops.

The biggest thing Sony has going for them is not that it's Linux or BR capable. It's simpy the next "PlayStation." Spending money on marketing for Linux would be a waste. The enthusiast niche already knows about it. If anything I'd spend a ton of marketing budget on BluRay. It's really been a pain in the PS3's side and needs to contribute at some point, financially speaking.