PS3 Open Platform - some big news
- Thread starter Titanio
- Start date
I can't comment on the PS3 because I haven't got one yet, but on the PC, Linux uses a bootloader like LILO or GRUB, the first stage of which is located in the master boot record of the bootable hard drive. This can contain a boot menu which allows you to select between various OS installations or more chained menus to boot eg. another GRUB/LILO menu, Windows, Linux, BSD etc. The master boot system has limited space in it so the second stage of GRUB/LILO is stored in the partition sector of the boot partition used for the OS. The boot directory in the boot partition (/boot) will contain the kernels to boot and initrd ramdiskswhich contain in initial device drivers required to bootstrap the OS as well as the grub config data and boot splash images. When changes are made to the GRUB or LILO config, you have to run GRUB or LILO to write the changes into the master boot record and the boot partition partition sector, otherwise they will be ineffective. As for the filesystem used in the master boot record and partition sector, they are just raw data. GRUB/LILO are in effect boot and partition sector viruses doing something useful. You should be able to see what is there on a PC by using anti-virus tools that allow you to examine the contents of the master boot record and boot sectors of the hard drive (you can also use Linux dd command to look at the raw content of the drives).
Look in /etc/fstab to see what filesystems are used for various Linux partitions like /boot. If /boot is not listed then /boot is a subdirectory of the root partition / and you can look up the filesystem of that.
All this is for the PC. The bootloader and boot procedure is possibly different on the PS3 since other non x86 architectures are different. In fact the PS3 first stage bootloader it very probably different and restricted because Sony would want to restrict booting directly into a program from an unauthorised BD or DVD disk. I would think therefore it is quite likely that the PS3OS bootloader and it's menu is a first stage bootloader which is stored in flash memory firmware which is not accessible to the user, and that chainloads the Linux bootloader which is stored on the hard drive somewhere (not necessarily the same way it is done on the ix86 architecture).
your refering to the gameOS partition i assume then NO you cant mount it or see it in any way.
apparently the bit in the gameOS that initalises the HD for a linux OS makes a virtual partition in as much as if you take the HD out and place it in a PC it does NOT show up there currently.
all this is talked about and discovered over on the #gentoo-ppc64 irc resently.
apparently the bit in the gameOS that initalises the HD for a linux OS makes a virtual partition in as much as if you take the HD out and place it in a PC it does NOT show up there currently.
all this is talked about and discovered over on the #gentoo-ppc64 irc resently.
Unlikely scenario?
I have some thoughts to share (maybe I should have opened a new thread, but I'm not quite confident to do this on my first post)
I was thinking on how free OS may affect the average and casual PS3 users. So, how can PS3 Linux reach the widest audience? Or said otherwise, Witch could be the best possible future for PS3 Linux?
All what people need to turn a PS3 in a small workstation is just a Linux installer and a keyboard+mouse. So Linux PS3 packages will start to sell everywhere (downloadable for free). Aiming to the average consumer would be quite easy: get a user-friendly distro (Windows like so they don't feel lost) with an easy step by step installation and put a "welcome to Linux" tutorial explaining the basics, you have just made another user less afraid of Linux.
As long as people has a HDTV, the PS3 will be suited for 99% of the tasks the normal people use to do on a PC (email, browsing, chat, worksheets, viewing pics and videos, downloading stuff, maybe mediacenter for linux? etc...). If PS3 Linux gets enough feedback and happens to gain enough momentum among the normal consumers, it could be a matter of time seeing it installed on a large percentage of the PS3s. And those consumers would become more prone to have a double OS configuration on their PC too (Win+Linux).
Moreover, as the console market is expected to get a lot wider, even if Sony loses market share this gen, PS3 is expected to reach at least a hundred million consumers again. Supposing the previous scenario can be reached, a hundred million PS3 Linux base would be a huge market for software companies that will consider porting more software to Linux.
So PS3/Sony is unquestionably going to be one of the biggest supports Linux has ever had, something Linux was seriously lacking, and if Sony and Linux play right their cards there's a chance to give Linux enough momentum to make a necessary step on the OS market, finally a step on the market of the average consumers.
How unlikely would be to reach this point? What other circumstances do you think would be required to reach it? Or, what's the furthest PS3 Linux can aim?
Obviously Microsoft isn't going to just stand there. Windows Vista will always be more attractive to the consumer than any Linux distro (unless someone puts several million dollars there), and PS3 is far from being a PC and that gap will become wider and wider (or may Sony sell improved versions of PS3?)...
I have some thoughts to share (maybe I should have opened a new thread, but I'm not quite confident to do this on my first post)
I was thinking on how free OS may affect the average and casual PS3 users. So, how can PS3 Linux reach the widest audience? Or said otherwise, Witch could be the best possible future for PS3 Linux?
All what people need to turn a PS3 in a small workstation is just a Linux installer and a keyboard+mouse. So Linux PS3 packages will start to sell everywhere (downloadable for free). Aiming to the average consumer would be quite easy: get a user-friendly distro (Windows like so they don't feel lost) with an easy step by step installation and put a "welcome to Linux" tutorial explaining the basics, you have just made another user less afraid of Linux.
As long as people has a HDTV, the PS3 will be suited for 99% of the tasks the normal people use to do on a PC (email, browsing, chat, worksheets, viewing pics and videos, downloading stuff, maybe mediacenter for linux? etc...). If PS3 Linux gets enough feedback and happens to gain enough momentum among the normal consumers, it could be a matter of time seeing it installed on a large percentage of the PS3s. And those consumers would become more prone to have a double OS configuration on their PC too (Win+Linux).
Moreover, as the console market is expected to get a lot wider, even if Sony loses market share this gen, PS3 is expected to reach at least a hundred million consumers again. Supposing the previous scenario can be reached, a hundred million PS3 Linux base would be a huge market for software companies that will consider porting more software to Linux.
So PS3/Sony is unquestionably going to be one of the biggest supports Linux has ever had, something Linux was seriously lacking, and if Sony and Linux play right their cards there's a chance to give Linux enough momentum to make a necessary step on the OS market, finally a step on the market of the average consumers.
How unlikely would be to reach this point? What other circumstances do you think would be required to reach it? Or, what's the furthest PS3 Linux can aim?
Obviously Microsoft isn't going to just stand there. Windows Vista will always be more attractive to the consumer than any Linux distro (unless someone puts several million dollars there), and PS3 is far from being a PC and that gap will become wider and wider (or may Sony sell improved versions of PS3?)...
Hello, Fredrick. Welcome.
The scenario you just described is me. I'm typing from my PS3 right now. I got YDL on this weekend. It was painless. And it's fairly easy to use. My PS3 is my only "computer" now and so far it's working out great. The basic PC functions combined with the premium console, blu ray player, and ahem... latent media center potential more than justify the 600 dollar price tag.
It's a great, nearly perfect product for me. But I'm in the minority. For now it's a games machine that does less than it's competition for more money. Sony has a ton of work to do if they want to position this thing as a reali media appliance.
And besides, Yellow Dog is still not ready for the mainstream. I had to find and modify the kboot... whatever the shit that is.... just to get the resolution to fit my monitor. I'm a power user, but I didn't know what I was doing and it was scary going in there and hunting for a little value to futz with! I wondered what would happen if I screwed something up! Reinstall?
The scenario you just described is me. I'm typing from my PS3 right now. I got YDL on this weekend. It was painless. And it's fairly easy to use. My PS3 is my only "computer" now and so far it's working out great. The basic PC functions combined with the premium console, blu ray player, and ahem... latent media center potential more than justify the 600 dollar price tag.
It's a great, nearly perfect product for me. But I'm in the minority. For now it's a games machine that does less than it's competition for more money. Sony has a ton of work to do if they want to position this thing as a reali media appliance.
And besides, Yellow Dog is still not ready for the mainstream. I had to find and modify the kboot... whatever the shit that is.... just to get the resolution to fit my monitor. I'm a power user, but I didn't know what I was doing and it was scary going in there and hunting for a little value to futz with! I wondered what would happen if I screwed something up! Reinstall?
Would be great for us users, not so great for Sony and developers.
Rainbow Man
Veteran
Basically isnt that what's still wrong with linux in general. The need to manually futz with configuration files and nonsense like that.
Then agian it's kind of th eold adage about looking a gift horse in the mouth. It IS free so I guess linux is worth the money after all.
Peace.
Basically isnt that what's still wrong with linux in general. The need to manually futz with configuration files and nonsense like that.
Then agian it's kind of th eold adage about looking a gift horse in the mouth. It IS free so I guess linux is worth the money after all.
Peace.
This is the problem with Linux on the x86 PC because there are so many possible hardware configurations. It shouldn't be a problem with Linux on the PS3. The only thing that needs to be custom configured on the PS3 are USB devices, and USB devices are very good at plug and play.
Rainbow Man
Veteran
It's not a problem wiht windows. Youi didn't have to manually fiddle with confif giles even with windows 3.0 and that was back in 1993..
The only reason it's still an issue with linux after this many ywears is probably linux devs are still too hackishly elitist and don't really consider it a problem or at least not a problem to be concerned with.
Having to edit a file to get the screen resolution to match the monitor is just stupid in this day and age. I remember from my old amiga days when I set the resolution using GUI.. That was over 20 goddamn years ago now.
Peace.
Basically isnt that what's still wrong with linux in general. The need to manually futz with configuration files and nonsense like that.
Then agian it's kind of th eold adage about looking a gift horse in the mouth. It IS free so I guess linux is worth the money after all.
Peace.
It's true. You just can't expect a user to deal with stuff like that. Not when you are suggesting a replacement for the PC as they know it.
The PS3 closed-box environment could go a long way towards making Linux as hassle free and user friendly as Windows, but it's certainly not there yet.
On the other hand, for those that are willing and able to use a PS3 as a computer, it's sweet. Puts the product in another league next to it's competition. I now consider the PS3 the "outsider". Having it here with a monitor, printer, etc, makes the 360 look more like the Wii.
Oh it is a problem with Windows all right if you have to install Windows on a Machine that Windows didn't come with and you don't have various drivers for the motherboard, the graphics card, SCSI controller, RAID controller, sound card etc. In fact Windows is much worse in this scenario than Linux. The difference is that Windows comes pre-installed with all the necessary drivers and OEM Windows can't legally be moved to another PC.
As for having to set the screen resolution by editing a file, you are a bit behind the times. Modern distros like Fedora, Ubuntu, Mandriva, SuSE etc. have GUIs to do this, and will autodetect and autoconfigure the graphics config files during installation if the particular graphics is supported by the built in drivers. You only need to edit the X config file to change the timings/bit depth/resolutions when the graphics card is not supported. The PS3 Linux config files should be 100% configured when installed to switch between all the resolutions simply by pressing "cntrl alt +" or "cntrl alt -" to toggle through all the resolutions - even easier than Windows. There is absolutely no reason to leave anything unconfigured on PS3 Linux, because it is so damn easy to do there is no reason for not doing it, unlike the case when you don't know the graphics card and monitor and the corresponding resolutions/bit depths/timings required.
crystalcube
Newcomer
They could just provide a 3d accelerated driver for RSX , even closed source ones would do. Nvidia does provide closed source drivers for Linux & FreeBSD for their graphics cards. In this case as YDL is "officially" supported Linux distribution they dont have to worry about supporting various distribution and just provide for YDL.
I think YDL supports Apple and IBM PPC distros as well. What is required is a PS3 only version with everything preconfigured out of the box right down to the browser bookmarks for warranty registration, and all unnecessary stuff like driver kernel modules and files that are useful only for other architectures, in order to avoid wasting RAM and disk space.
Definitely. As I understand it, YDL is full of extra 'junk' in that 'we let the Linux users choose which is their favourtie text editor from 200 different options' way. Choice isn't necessary, and mostly confuses people. A super slimline, one-size-fits-all version would be very beneficial.
Yeah, but YDL has a 'dummy' setup version and an 'expert' setup version. The dummy version just installs the most common apps for you and asks very little questions.
deathkiller
Newcomer
I can't imagine how giving access to the GPU can create a exploit in the hypervisor that would still needed for piracy. They could block another SPU in exchange
.
Yes, I guess they just failed to get that working in time. I should hope that they fix this some time in the future.
