DIRT: Colin McRae Off-Road

[MrWibble]

So what exactly is/was PSSG? And yes it is a multiplatform engine.

Gotta be careful here, I can't remember exactly how much Sony have said in public - but they presented at Develop in the UK, so I'm sure they've described it in reasonable detail.

PSSG is a "high level" graphics engine - it's got scene management, animation, that kind of thing. It's also cross-platform, which pretty much means it runs on PC as well as PS3, because like I said I don't think Sony have a 360 devkit lying around

There's not much "game" stuff in it - it really just throws graphics around. But it seems pretty capable - you can make complex animated scenes in your 3D package, export them (assuming you can get Collada to work, as it uses that format), and it'll load and render them for you.

There's also some tools and stuff, and it's all pretty open for extending (IIRC it's all source-code so that you can port it or change it, but there are APIs for extending it rather than just having to hack it).

Like I say, they did a presentation at Develop on writing a simple game with it - not sure if that's been made public or not though.

 

[mckmas8808]

Gotta be careful here, I can't remember exactly how much Sony have said in public - but they presented at Develop in the UK, so I'm sure they've described it in reasonable detail.

PSSG is a "high level" graphics engine - it's got scene management, animation, that kind of thing. It's also cross-platform, which pretty much means it runs on PC as well as PS3, because like I said I don't think Sony have a 360 devkit lying around

There's not much "game" stuff in it - it really just throws graphics around. But it seems pretty capable - you can make complex animated scenes in your 3D package, export them (assuming you can get Collada to work, as it uses that format), and it'll load and render them for you.

There's also some tools and stuff, and it's all pretty open for extending (IIRC it's all source-code so that you can port it or change it, but there are APIs for extending it rather than just having to hack it).

Like I say, they did a presentation at Develop on writing a simple game with it - not sure if that's been made public or not though.

Well I did hear that a team or developers in Europe were the ones that helped the Neon engine, so maybe it is what you are talking about.

 

[MrWibble]

Well I did hear that a team or developers in Europe were the ones that helped the Neon engine, so maybe it is what you are talking about.

Yes, PSSG is developed by some of the European Sony guys (I actually know a few of them... small industry!)

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes, PSSG is developed by some of the European Sony guys (I actually know a few of them... small industry!)

I hate to ask a loaded question but here it goes. Can you ever see those SCEE guys making a game that looks and/or animates as good as the Killzone E3 2005 video? Do they actually have the talent to do something like that?

 

[ChryZ]

At the Develop Conference there was a session about PSSG:

Developing with PSSG, a PlayStation 3 optimised cross platform engine

Richard Forster, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe
Track: Coding · Theme: Profiting from Technology Lecture, 60 minutes
Thursday, 13 July · 9:30-10:30

PSSG is a high level, game oriented, cross platform graphics engine and tool set, optimised for PlayStation 3. This talk shows how a simple game was developed for PlayStation 3 using PSSG's extensive library of APIs and tools. Although the game was developed in a short timeframe by a tiny team, PSSG enabled optimal use of PlayStation3 hardware resources.

The game uses the high level interface exposed by PSSG to leverage the SPUs and ensure competitive performance for scene graph, animation and rendering. Meanwhile the tool set provides a simple and automated path for importing and processing art assets.

The audience will take away an understanding one of the higher level components of the PlayStation 3 SDK and how they simplify PlayStation3 (and other platforms) development while maintaining excellent performance. They will also gain some insight on optimising and refactoring for SPUs.

 

[Acert93]

I hate to ask a loaded question but here it goes.

That is waaay off topic and the wrong thread. Maybe you can just edit your question out? It would probably stop a lot of heart ache. Your question should be answered soon enough with media.

 

[Type_Raver]

Looks like crysis on wheels! Looks sweet as, and its got old skool rally cards from the 80s!! Too fast to race, anyone?

 

[MrWibble]

I hate to ask a loaded question but here it goes. Can you ever see those SCEE guys making a game that looks and/or animates as good as the Killzone E3 2005 video? Do they actually have the talent to do something like that?

Well the guys I know are R&D folks rather than the game folks (though I actually I know a few of those too because it's a huge company that employs more or less everyone in the world now, or so it seems)... so it's kind of an unfair question and I'm going to quickly exit stage-left rather than attempt to answer it

 

[mckmas8808]

Well the guys I know are R&D folks rather than the game folks (though I actually I know a few of those too because it's a huge company that employs more or less everyone in the world now, or so it seems)... so it's kind of an unfair question and I'm going to quickly exit stage-left rather than attempt to answer it

Hey man don't leave. I take my question back. Can you answer this question? Can you see PSSG being used in some very small way by looks of 1st or 2nd party Sony devs? Like ND and their jungle game? Could PSSG help them reach that animation that they showed in real-time?

 

[MrWibble]

Hey man don't leave. I take my question back. Can you answer this question? Can you see PSSG being used in some very small way by looks of 1st or 2nd party Sony devs? Like ND and their jungle game? Could PSSG help them reach that animation that they showed in real-time?

Could it? Possibly. Will they use it? I doubt it - just doesn't seems like ND's style to use anything but their own technology. If there's anything PSSG can do that their own tech can't, at best they'll have a good look at it and then go and write their own equivalent version that fits into their own framework. One factor is that Sony internally don't care at all about cross-platform, so the fact that PSSG is cross-platform is possibly a downside for them, whereas for almost everyone else it would be a positive. Clearly Sony have targetted PSSG at PS3 for best performance, but probably a few compromises have been taken here and there.

More interesting is whether or not PSSG can offer *other* developers technology that is comparable to the best-of-breed stuff that the internal studios will be coming out with. I presume that is the aim - internal development probably don't need the help, but smaller independant studios often do not have the resources to compete technically. So it seems more targetted at helping the little guy - but Codemasters are not small, so it must be a pretty capable system regardless.

 

[Nesh]

Ok. Now tell us what you know about Killzone2

*runs away*

 

[rabidrabbit]

Looks pretty awesome!
The shots are from a replay though, and paused.
Could it be that when the game is paused, it goes into a "photo mode".
Like the photo modes in GT4 (and PGR3?), that render the still image at a higher quality than ingame graphics, using the same assets.
With next gen power, this rendering could happen much faster, in a second or do, that it'd be useable in a replay pause mode.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So we can guess that the visuals on show hee are through this PSSG renderer. If it's supposed to offer a cross-patform ptopn, it's supposed to provide PC support. Any chances it's any good in that area performance wise? I doubt devs would jump at PSSG for developing PS3 titles with a view to PC ports, if the PC port would under-perform.

I guess really PSSG and Sony's development need a tech thread.

As for the pics, look good, but mostly for the scenery. The cars themselves don't have 'it' IMO.

 

[rabidrabbit]

I think the car modelling in most "seriously taken" next gen car games are good, it's the lighting, reflections... that makes them look bad, average or great.
I find little to fault in these cars, though them being covered in dust and some being some old rally cars (I think) that obviously don't look as good even in real life as the newer ones.

 

[CEO]

Screens are Ok'ish.

Then maybe photoshoped like all previous Codemasters screenshots. (Race Driver Series)

 

[London Geezer]

Mmm i'm keeping a "too good to be true" mind. Love the slightly over-exposed look of it i must say

 

[MrWibble]

I guess really PSSG and Sony's development need a tech thread.

Well even though they've said a bunch of stuff about it in public, it's still not a good idea for us to talk too much about it under NDA... so while it might be a little off-topic here, there might not be too much else we can say.

Though you're welcome to speculate amongst yourselves I suppose, like whether or not it's got special G80 support

 

[Nite_Hawk]

Well even though they've said a bunch of stuff about it in public, it's still not a good idea for us to talk too much about it under NDA... so while it might be a little off-topic here, there might not be too much else we can say.

Though you're welcome to speculate amongst yourselves I suppose, like whether or not it's got special G80 support

OMG RSX = G80!

Nite_Hawk

 

[London Geezer]

Though you're welcome to speculate amongst yourselves I suppose, like whether or not it's got special G80 support

Well, don't quote me on this, but i heard Sony actually dumped NVIDIA last week and they're going with Matrox.

 

[inefficient]

I think the car modelling in most "seriously taken" next gen car games are good, it's the lighting, reflections... that makes them look bad, average or great.
I find little to fault in these cars, though them being covered in dust and some being some old rally cars (I think) that obviously don't look as good even in real life as the newer ones.

I think you are on to something. We seem to have the technology to make dirty/dusty stuff look great. But nice clean shiny things still look very last gen and poor in most lighting conditions.

Forget the reflection maps, add more dirt maps!