Is interest in mathematics around the world waning?

[K.I.L.E.R]

Everywhere I look I see a horrible nightmare that is the lack of interest in mathematics in the world.
After a few years of programming and solving different problems I always ended up hitting a brick wall, mathematics.
I came across many problems that have easy mathematical solutions, however I couldn't derive them, sure I could copy/paste but in doing so it made me feel hopeless.

At this moment in my life I feel fairly strong with my mathematics, obviously there are many areas I could still improve upon but the main point is that I am solving problems the easy way. When I get a problem, I break it up, knowledge and some experience in mathematics helps me come to well thought out conclusions in a short amount of time.
I had a friend who is an absolute moron, he thinks a computer can do all the world's mathematics. I eventually had an argument with him and we just haven't spoken since.
He doesn't really know anything about mathematics but he likes to make assume that it's all easy. I won the argument, he acknowledged my points and that was the end.

I'm deathly frustrated at the fact people acknowledge the points I make regarding mathematics but still refuse to learn any mathematics. What can I do to convince people to learn mathematics? I really want to solve this problem.

 

[Sc4freak]

We're in Australia, I'm not sure what you expected in regards to maths skills from the general public. Hell, most parents can't even help their children with their basic algebra skills.

 

[zsouthboy]

Mathematics Skill In The World = Mathematics Skill In The World + 1

Oops. I messed up that equation too!

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

People think they can get through life without ever knowing mathematics. It absolutely sickens me that such attitudes are allowed to continue to breed.
It's that attitude that rubs off on people and creates future problems.

People are complaining about low skill work moving overseas, why? They don't have any other skills than those of menial labor. I'm hoping that outsourcing will become so big that people will be forced to get skills in areas such as mathematics or risk starving to death.

 

[Fred]

You can't force people to do something they don't want to do. I used to think that it was appaling, but now I don't really anymore.

The simple truism is on average, the people who are going to learn mathematics/sciences are most likely going to have already started well before high school. If not in a formal way, at least in the sense of breaking things down logically.

Ultimately its a curiousity trait, usually coupled with a reasonable IQ, and that just isn't teachable. You will find a few rare gem students who have the trait, but are poorly taught (and thats what you look for as a teacher), but by and large the majority of people don't have it, at least for heavy technical subjects.

Im sure a sufficiently advanced alien civilization could just imprint the totality of mathematical knowledge known into someone's neurons, but again, that person simply won't progress much further b/c they just don't have the drive to do it.

 

[zidane1strife]

People think they can get through life without ever knowing mathematics. It absolutely sickens me that such attitudes are allowed to continue to breed.
It's that attitude that rubs off on people and creates future problems.

People are complaining about low skill work moving overseas, why? They don't have any other skills than those of menial labor. I'm hoping that outsourcing will become so big that people will be forced to get skills in areas such as mathematics or risk starving to death.

I'm hoping we can fully automate the most skilled of human labor, and go beyond what is humanly possible.

 

[zsouthboy]

IME people that say they "hate" math usually had a traumatic experience/crappy teacher who made them feel stupid about it.

Of course, the plural of anecdote isn't .... anecdotes?








I don't get it.

I guess you could pluralize it that way.

 

[ninelven]

People think they can get through life without ever knowing mathematics. It absolutely sickens me that such attitudes are allowed to continue to breed.

Why? They are right. Many people can and *gasp* do get through life just fine with virtually no mathematical skill. You could just as well make the same statement about any number professions and their associated knowledge.

Ex: A world w/o engineers, a world w/o linguists, a world w/o philosophy, a world w/o politics, a world without farmers, etc....

Obviously there are many non-essential subjects in the world. You see mathematics as important because of the way you percieve the world, but go live in the Congo for six months and see what good math does you there.

Ex: I am typing this message on a computer which uses a processor that I (in my lifetime) could not hope to engineer on a motherboard I couldn't manufacture and is connected to the "internet" through a proccess I'm sure I don't fully grasp. This "machine" happens to run software which I could never hope to understand much less program. Not to mention that probably half of what I touch on a daily basis is made out of a material designed by a chemist in a lab and is manufactured in a process I could only percieve as magical.

The main point, however, is that what makes your life worth living isn't neccessarily true for another. Mathematics, like most anything in life, is essential only so far as it enables you to live your life as you see fit.

I'm hoping that outsourcing will become so big that people will be forced to get skills in areas such as mathematics or risk starving to death.

If you're starving to death, might I suggest that agricultural skills would be infinitely more valuable than mathematics....


.....some idiot who loves math so much he got a degree in it.

 

[mondoterrifico]

You can't force people to do something they don't want to do. I used to think that it was appaling, but now I don't really anymore.

Hehe I know Fred not being able to force people to do things is so disheartening.
(I know what you meant )

Most people I know that say they dislike math, are still interested in puzzles and problem solving, but somehow got turned off math.

 

[Neeyik]

What can I do to convince people to learn mathematics? I really want to solve this problem.

An admirable sentiment - one that's echoed by mathematics teachers around the globe. However...

People think they can get through life without ever knowing mathematics. It absolutely sickens me that such attitudes are allowed to continue to breed.
It's that attitude that rubs off on people and creates future problems.

Whether you're joking or not, it's possible that kind of elistist mentality that puts an awful lot of people off education full stop, regardless as to whether it's mathematics or not. Out of all the students I teach, the subject of physics will be genuinely relevant to less than 25% of them and out of those less than a further 25% will even think of pursuing greater than the level that they're currently studying at - the reason why is linked to the elitism point above. They find the subject very hard and quite pointless (and a good deal of the syllabus is) so why I should I even think about trying to convince them that physics is important and they should learn it?

 

[AlNom]

why I should I even think about trying to convince them that physics is important and they should learn it?

Because you're 1337!

Don't worry Kiler, once we convert all english 2 1337 5p34|<, p30p|_3 \/\/1|_|_ |=|_0c|< 2 |\/|47|-|.

 

[ShootMyMonkey]

Out of all the students I teach, the subject of physics will be genuinely relevant to less than 25% of them and out of those less than a further 25% will even think of pursuing greater than the level that they're currently studying at - the reason why is linked to the elitism point above. They find the subject very hard and quite pointless (and a good deal of the syllabus is) so why I should I even think about trying to convince them that physics is important and they should learn it?

I think the real problem is that people lose interest in things like math and physics and find it to be pointless before they're ever really certain whether or not they will go into a profession in which it would be meaningful.

Having no interest in studying thermodynamics if you're an economics or sociology major is an acceptable lack of interest in my book. Having no interest in how to add fractions when you're a kindergartener (or I guess, 3rd-grader in the US?) is not in any way acceptable. The whole point of lower-level education is not about the "will be," but the "what could be." And the problem is that since schools are rated on their own passing rate, they end up pandering to the weaknesses of their students and dumbing down the curricula.

Of course, in the case of math and science, it's not exactly taught well, either. Pure memorization of the "what" without any regard for the "why" doesn't really work for math -- especially since raw numbers/equations/data/etc. look so meaningless by themselves.

 

[poopypoo]

Of course, in the case of math and science, it's not exactly taught well, either. Pure memorization of the "what" without any regard for the "why" doesn't really work for math -- especially since raw numbers/equations/data/etc. look so meaningless by themselves.

AGREED!!!!!!!! I feel lucky that I was studying logic before any hgiher math. By coincidence, really. So, when algebraic math came along, it all made sense. These weren't just ways to solve random numerical issues, they were ways tyo solve every problem evar! ...except why your wife cheats on you, but that's hey! wait! i didn't mean to say that! ...anyway. wrt the OP, KILER, face it -- peoples' educations aren't going down (FAR FROM IT -- unless you happen to be in a particularly unlucky neighborhood?) -- you're just getting old and crotchety. You can only ever lead by example, and nobody listens to a sourpuss.

 

[Neeyik]

I think the real problem is that people lose interest in things like math and physics and find it to be pointless before they're ever really certain whether or not they will go into a profession in which it would be meaningful.

That's actually true of any subject in modern education though (certainly in the UK, at least).

And the problem is that since schools are rated on their own passing rate, they end up pandering to the weaknesses of their students and dumbing down the curricula.

They're forced to though - schools (in the UK) don't set the curriculum studied, even independent ones.

Of course, in the case of math and science, it's not exactly taught well, either.

I would argue that it's the opposite - I would say that it's never been taught better but the whole situation is compromised by frequently moving goalposts, set by the government.

 

[DemoCoder]

Funny, I don't just whether or not knowledge is pointless by the mere fact that it is useful in a particular profession. Many of the skills you learn when you learn advanced mathematics are new ways of thinking and looking at problems, the ability to abstract and reason about an abstraction, that don't neccessarily translate to one particular *job* but rather manifest themselves across all fields of study by giving you new ways of thinking about problems.

For example, I know of a guy who studied Math, but became instead a government policy analyst, who principally helps write law for politicians, and who uses operations research/queuing theory, and other mathematics he learned way long ago, in designing or analyzing policy. Now, did he remember everything he learned in college? No, he forgot most of it, but he remembered that he once knew it, and that allowed him to go search the field to see if it was any help.


It's not just about what you know you know, it's about knowing what you don't know.

 

[LunchBox]

you can partially blame Texas Instruments with their T.I. calculator line up (specially the T.I. 86).

who needs to memorize formulas and equations when you can just program those things to do the work for you...

 

[mjtdevries]

who needs to memorize formulas and equations when you can just program those things to do the work for you...

Memorizing formulas is stupid anyway.

Understanding those formulas is what is important. Schools and universities should teach people how to use those formulas.


But universities focus on memorizing formula's instead of understanding them. People can get high grades by memorizing what formula should be used for a certain task, instead of understanding how a task should be solved.

It's a lot easier for the teachers that way...

But the best scientist are the people that focus on understanding instead of memorizing.

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

Lots of things don't have formulas anyway.
My maths class gives you the formula but you have to prove that the formula is correct for the given situation, which is much harder because you have to model the situation and solve it to end up with the given formula, then you have to write a conclusion on numerous situations where you have to use your formula to derive an answer to prove your conclusion.
Those physics formulas we learned in school are useless for nearly all situations.

 

[DemoCoder]

The university I went to never taught people to memorize formulas. In the vast majority of cases there isn't a formula anyway. Solving physics problems requires analytical skills to set up the problem, with appropriate constraints, and then solve for the unknowns of interest.

Formulas? No. Axioms? Yes. F=ma is not a formula.

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

Those are the kinds of problems I'm getting as well.
Setting up differential equations based on what you need.

The university I went to never taught people to memorize formulas. In the vast majority of cases there isn't a formula anyway. Solving physics problems requires analytical skills to set up the problem, with appropriate constraints, and then solve for the unknowns of interest.

Formulas? No. Axioms? Yes. F=ma is not a formula.