Please pass along my gratitude to Ratch for the effort, in case he doesn't read this thread.
Rpsc Rip?
- Thread starter Guden Oden
- Start date
I think the longer it takes to resurrect the forum, the higher the chance that it will resemble a mere shell of its former self as the regulars leave. Like a hurricane flooded neighborhood, if you take too long resurrecting it, the people who made the community vibrant and what it was may have moved on.
I really don't see many options:
1) no moderation, warning text saying "dragons be here" on forum description
2) manual moderation by authorities (mods)
3) collaborative filtering (e.g. Slashdot karma system)
4) insult filter: let posters contribute to a database of insult terms of phrases. Block posts or make them by default invisible if they contain the phrases. As posters invent more elaborate insults and rants, people providing feedback can add to the insult database. Mods approve entries to DB to prevent denial of service. Database will be neverending and evolving of course.
5) person filter: Jury by peers. Too many negative comments against you or your post, and your post goes invisible. At a higher level, you lose posting privileges temporarily to "cool off". People who abuse the system with false accusations themselves will be subject to community response. Of course, there need to be ironclad clear rules about what constitutes bad behavior and what doesn't, so people who falsely accuse others can be properly dealth with as each community member interprets the "law"
Now, even as I write this, I disagree with 2-5. I just don't think it's needed except in extreme cases, and I haven't see much. I mean, there is a difference between saying "your theory is stupid", and "you fucking wetback jew. You are only support gay rights because you and your dad are butt pirate ass munchers!"
And even that pales in comparison to the level of abuse I see in Yahoo, NYT, and USENET forums. I don't think people here realize how bad it gets, and that people have committed *suicide* over being flamed into depression, harassed and stalked, etc.
I really don't see many options:
1) no moderation, warning text saying "dragons be here" on forum description
2) manual moderation by authorities (mods)
3) collaborative filtering (e.g. Slashdot karma system)
4) insult filter: let posters contribute to a database of insult terms of phrases. Block posts or make them by default invisible if they contain the phrases. As posters invent more elaborate insults and rants, people providing feedback can add to the insult database. Mods approve entries to DB to prevent denial of service. Database will be neverending and evolving of course.
5) person filter: Jury by peers. Too many negative comments against you or your post, and your post goes invisible. At a higher level, you lose posting privileges temporarily to "cool off". People who abuse the system with false accusations themselves will be subject to community response. Of course, there need to be ironclad clear rules about what constitutes bad behavior and what doesn't, so people who falsely accuse others can be properly dealth with as each community member interprets the "law"
Now, even as I write this, I disagree with 2-5. I just don't think it's needed except in extreme cases, and I haven't see much. I mean, there is a difference between saying "your theory is stupid", and "you fucking wetback jew. You are only support gay rights because you and your dad are butt pirate ass munchers!"
And even that pales in comparison to the level of abuse I see in Yahoo, NYT, and USENET forums. I don't think people here realize how bad it gets, and that people have committed *suicide* over being flamed into depression, harassed and stalked, etc.
I agree and I think Vysez and crew are taking an unwarranted beating over this. One of the core problems with the forum (outside blatant hate speech and complete intolerance) is that a lot of posters -- including many regulars -- seem incapable of curtious and respectful dialogue. The way the mods are getting treated in this thread is a primary example of that. And ultimately one of B3D's strengths -- attracting intelligent people -- is a short coming in a RPSC type forum because many of the posters there are quite skilled at tightly weaving their digs, insults, and hate into otherwise intelligent posts.
The fact a lot of stuff was posted and never moderated did look very poorly on B3D and the B3D staff. That can be spun whatever way people want but at the end of the day when hateful and obnoxiously rude posting goes unchecked it does reflect on B3D.
Kind of sad
But should B3D follow the same path and set low levels as well? Is it really too much to ask posters to keep their attitudes in check?Personally I think there is a really simple solution (if the problem is moderation and reflection on B3D, but there may be other issues). I think you guys should be able to tear into each other all day long, unchecked, etc as long as you want so here it is:
Solution: Install a 2nd forum. Make a sticky link where RPSC is now to this new forum. It can either be on B3D (www.beyond3d.com/rpsc/index.php) or off-site (www.rpsc-3d.com/forum/index.php). There are a number of free and stable PHP scripts that would meet the needs.
Honestly I find it quite sad that intelligent people cannot have intelligent and polite discussion and discord. But then again everyone has a different measure of what makes good entertainment and a number of you spend substantially more time in RPSC than the rest of B3D combined, so I could see how getting the rug pulled out could make you mad and feel as if there was not much here to keep you around.
As nice as it was to see non-mainstream news and bits in RPSC at times, I cannot say I will miss the forum one bit. But then again I was smart enough to just avoid the forum more often than not
Is the issue about various political opinions that may be disagreeable? From Vysez first post it seems it is more about the way people treat eachother.
Vysez said:
And the treatment Vysez has received in this thread only seems to reinforce that criticism.
I don't think I have personally insulted Vysez at all, I haven't see anyone else, and I think the discussion here has been civil. Are people mad? Yes. Are they getting worked up about it? Yes. But the discusssion is civil. Suggesting that the mods went overboard is civil. Complaints are civil. Suggestions of problems in the decision making of the mods is civil.
There is a difference between a *heated* discussion, and one composed of nothing but ad hominem insults. I find it odd that even the heated discussion here offends people.
I mean, is the forum discussions on B3D supposed to resemble a convention on Vulcan, with people speaking robotically, and unemotionally, detached on subjects of interest?
There is a difference between a *heated* discussion, and one composed of nothing but ad hominem insults. I find it odd that even the heated discussion here offends people.
I mean, is the forum discussions on B3D supposed to resemble a convention on Vulcan, with people speaking robotically, and unemotionally, detached on subjects of interest?
At least my old hyperlink works, but no new threads.
I'd like you to reinstate it while you put in a solution. If it's getting stupid, you've made a point. Why not have everyone agree on a solution (as much as possible) and see how civility maintains in the weeks it takes to implement?
I'd like you to reinstate it while you put in a solution. If it's getting stupid, you've made a point. Why not have everyone agree on a solution (as much as possible) and see how civility maintains in the weeks it takes to implement?
Vysez complained about the site administration receiving hate mail accusing them of condoning hate speech and terrorism - and I doubt that these are complaints that were made by RPSC regulars. Geo specifically worried about people who are not "the long-term natives" wandering in without "informed consent".
What sort of treatment has he received? I felt (still do) that his first posting was totally inappropriate and I simply voiced that opinion. He did, after all, collectively accuse all PRSCers of being childish and unable to discuss in a civil manner.
What exactly do you find so disagreeable about that? Did anyone insult him? No. Did anyone go apeshit on his ass? No. The discussion has been civil by all standards. If you feel that a controversial discussion, even if conducted in a civil manner like this one, is inappropriate then you may have missed the point of internet message boards. I fail to see how this thread could possibly reinforce his "criticism".
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I second that solution!
Unfrotunatly your gonna get that no matter what lets look at a couple of slightly different scenarios.
1) Someone said child molesters should be raped and sodomised.
Person A says that no that is condoning rape and emails the admins.
Person B says says person A is condoning child molesters and emails the admins.
2) Someone posts thats XYZ product worse preformance then ABC
XYZ vendor doesn't like that and emails the admins saying they aren't going to co-operate with B3D any more they can't see it they can't complain.
Ban whingers or atleast abusive whingers from RSPC. What they can't see they can't complain about.
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Suggestions:
--Move the RSPC/General forum sections to the bottom of the forum listings in the main forum section. (ive made this suggestion a few months ago.)
--Have folders in the RSPC forum, this will group hot topic discussions into neat sections. This would help compartilize the rspc forum. All lebanon discussions could for a week or two be in a subsection of the rspc forum. After discussion has cooled down, the folder could be deleted and the threads within it merged back into the rspc forum.
--Allow only certain regular members to report bad posts, rude behavior. Anyone who PM's the admin outside this group should be ignored, or directed to an active thread that they could vent and explain why they have a problem.
--Disclamers both at the top of the rspc forum, and before submitting a post.
I'll add more as i think of them.
epic
--Move the RSPC/General forum sections to the bottom of the forum listings in the main forum section. (ive made this suggestion a few months ago.)
--Have folders in the RSPC forum, this will group hot topic discussions into neat sections. This would help compartilize the rspc forum. All lebanon discussions could for a week or two be in a subsection of the rspc forum. After discussion has cooled down, the folder could be deleted and the threads within it merged back into the rspc forum.
--Allow only certain regular members to report bad posts, rude behavior. Anyone who PM's the admin outside this group should be ignored, or directed to an active thread that they could vent and explain why they have a problem.
--Disclamers both at the top of the rspc forum, and before submitting a post.
I'll add more as i think of them.
epic
There have been a number of positive proposals made. It's hard, however, to know what to say to solve "the problem" when you have been pretty vague about what "the problem" exactly is. I get the impression this has something to do with the "new management" but I'm not clear on why exactly they have this problem (if, indeed, they do). In order to try and reach a form of compromise then we need to be clear as to what the issues are so they can be addressed. Of course, you are under no obligation to do so or give any reasons, but I hoped B3D wasn't that kind of place. If it's becoming so then, again, please let us know so we can decide whether we want to still partake in the community.
Personally I'd be happy to provide ideas to solve any issues there are but I need to be clear what, specifically, the issues are. Only then can we come up with a positive way of solving them, which is what I hope everyone wants.
Err, while you might find it sad, it's not exactly like the console forum - where most of your posts are located - is known to be a bastion of intellectual discussion. Some of us seemingly just prefer to discuss politics during the slow parts of the graphics cycle rather than engaging in the daily discussion of if the latest screenshot for console game x is pre-rendered or not, or to what extent the latest PR release from company x is 99% or 98% lies and how much more evil they are than company y. The RPSC forum is a reason to return pretty much daily, for me at least, and just because some of us have most of our posts there doesn't mean we don't read the other forums, but rather that we'll keep our bickering where it belongs instead of clogging up the actual 3d related threads. But as you said, I guess everyone has a different measure of what makes good entertainment. And for the record, I thought the RPSC was fine as it was.
Dang this is a bit of a shock on my first day of vacation where I was hoping to catch up ons some threads... reminded me of when discussion3d got shut down... And the local BBS way back in '86.
Yea rage3d has a good system and I post there more often than here now but I find the posters here, tho smaller in number, a bit higher in quality generally speaking so I still enjoyed coming here.
Try the rage3d system and see how it goes...
Its hard to find good middle of the road RP discussion boards. Like demo said most of the other ones are pretty rabid or too slanted right or left. Other than this one I only use rage3d regularly. Be sad to lose it...
Hey if for any reason it doesnt reopen please leave a sticky thread somwhere as to where the community here wishes to go so its doesnt get too dispersed.
Yea rage3d has a good system and I post there more often than here now but I find the posters here, tho smaller in number, a bit higher in quality generally speaking so I still enjoyed coming here.
Try the rage3d system and see how it goes...
Its hard to find good middle of the road RP discussion boards. Like demo said most of the other ones are pretty rabid or too slanted right or left. Other than this one I only use rage3d regularly. Be sad to lose it...
Hey if for any reason it doesnt reopen please leave a sticky thread somwhere as to where the community here wishes to go so its doesnt get too dispersed.
Hey Geo, since everyone has a solution why not let people actually take control over that one board?
Not my call, dude.
Reviewing the thread, it seems to me there might be enough bits and pieces of a workable solution spread around to meet everyone's needs. We'll have to wait to see what the Big Guy (TM) says.
I'm the big guy.
RPSC will be back soon, but we'll run it a bit differently from before. It'll be *unmoderated, and it'll also be completely invisible to guest users browsing the forums.
You'll opt-in to take part at your own discretion, with clear warning that you're entering the minefield and that there's no protection from the moderation team. There'll also be no barrier to entry as reputation goes, but you'll still need to be at least a Junior Member in terms of usergroup.
So effectively you guys can post as you please and the site staff will only take an interest if serious crossing of The Line(tm) takes place. You're all big enough and ugly enough to self-moderate in there, and we realise that. Hope that's cool with everyone.
I understand the place needs the RPSC forum, but it was becoming a problem for me as far as intended growth opportunities and whatnot went. Hope you understand that we had to close it for a day or two, but it was necessary while we pondered the best way to reopen it so it could live and breathe freely. It was never going to go away, though :smile:
Cheers, and keep an eye out for instructions on how to get yourself back in there, should you so wish, as soon as we're done making the requisite changes.
*Things like genocide advocation and warez we'll still shit on you for
RPSC will be back soon, but we'll run it a bit differently from before. It'll be *unmoderated, and it'll also be completely invisible to guest users browsing the forums.
You'll opt-in to take part at your own discretion, with clear warning that you're entering the minefield and that there's no protection from the moderation team. There'll also be no barrier to entry as reputation goes, but you'll still need to be at least a Junior Member in terms of usergroup.
So effectively you guys can post as you please and the site staff will only take an interest if serious crossing of The Line(tm) takes place. You're all big enough and ugly enough to self-moderate in there, and we realise that. Hope that's cool with everyone.
I understand the place needs the RPSC forum, but it was becoming a problem for me as far as intended growth opportunities and whatnot went. Hope you understand that we had to close it for a day or two, but it was necessary while we pondered the best way to reopen it so it could live and breathe freely. It was never going to go away, though :smile:
Cheers, and keep an eye out for instructions on how to get yourself back in there, should you so wish, as soon as we're done making the requisite changes.
*Things like genocide advocation and warez we'll still shit on you for
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