New Wii footage

[StefanS]

I'm simply saying if what they're showing is the extent, then I will be sadly disappointed. Being intuitive only gets you in faster, but in the long run it's going deeper that counts. Will there be a way to instant-180? Will there be variable turning speed? Can you switch between edge-turning and conventional FPS control (crosshairs centered, moving the field of vision) on the fly? From a menu?

Comments made about it being "too sensitive" strike me as extremely strange (not to mention pointless), because you can adjust the sensitivity. (There would, of course, be the necessity for a "recentering" command if you change your hand position overly, but that's about it.) What makes something like that more "intuitive" than, oh... the way every FPS so far has been done since Day 1? Maybe for getting a handful of new people in, but what about the 3 billion who already know what's what?

I am pretty sure sooner or later somebody is going to try to use the freelook+recentering in a FPS on Wii. -So far we don't know how CoD3 is going to be controlled, chances are they might use it-. It's really only a matter of time I think.
As for sensitivity in connection with it: Who says you have to use linear sensitivity? For Wii you could use lower sensitivity as long as the Wiimote is pointing to the center of the screen to allow for a more precise / steady aim and high sensitivity to increase turning speeds.
The recentering could, however, be a problem:

+ = crosshair; o= position of the Wiimote pointer

|--------------------------------------------------------|
|                                                        |
|                                                        |
|                                                  +o  ´ |
|                                                        |
|                                                        |
|                                                        |
|                                                        |
|--------------------------------------------------------|

recentering occurs

|--------------------------------------------------------|
|                                                        |
|                                                        |
|                                                   o    |
|                          +                             |
|                                                        |
|                                                        |
|                                                        |
|--------------------------------------------------------|

movement

|--------------------------------------------------------|
|                                                        |
|                                                        |                   o
|                                                   +    |
|                                                        |
|                                                        |
|                                                        |
|                                                        |
|--------------------------------------------------------|

In a PC game you'd pick up the mouse center it on your mousepad. Here you'd have to aim at the middle of the screen and recenter which more of a hassle. Moreover during screen 2 you'd lose the light-gun ability (i.e. shoot where you point), reducing it effectively to steering mechanism (i.e. shoot where your cross hair points to).
Additionally, in the last screen the Wiipointer would be off-screen, which can cause problems as well.

 

[Beafy]

Simple example.

You've just finished shooting at a guy on a 3rd floor balcony. Another guy starts shooting at you from the ground. You have to overcompensate your aiming down to lower your view point enough to see him before you can shoot him.

You don't have to move the reticle to the edge of the screen to change view. You can see the enemy before he's past the reticle and stop the movement at the right moment.

Or, take shooting out of the equation. You have to do major aiming adjustments to make minor adjustments as to where your screen is centered in the environment. If you want to tilt your view down a mere 5 degrees you have to aim below the screen to do it.

This I could actually see as a problem. I'd guess this could be fixed with higher turning speed (the speed in the video is really ridiculously low), so it would just be a quick flick of the wrist to change the viewport -- at least in the vertical, since the height of the picture is smaller then the width.

 

[Blade]

McKmas: Preferably, most of us would go with a WiiS360.

I think pricing issues and similarities are holding back the PS360. Upwards of $1000 for just the consoles alone? Ouch. And they offer the same experience, give or take a few games. This doesn't mean that it's not worth getting the PS3 and X360 together, but most gamers are seeing the Wii as a must-have console. For price, and many other reasons.

Given that most gamers can only afford 2 consoles, obviously the scales begin to lean in favor of Wii60 or WiiS3.

 

[Anvil]

Given that most gamers can only afford 2 consoles, obviously the scales begin to lean in favor of Wii60 or WiiS3.

My thoughts as well. The wife has already given me persmission to get the Wii when it is released to complement my 360.

 

[inefficient]

If this was a $39.95 perhiperal to play games on a PS2 or xbox, I still would not buy it for any one of those games shown in the videos.

The only reason why I will buy the Wii is because I have a boner for Zelda games.

 

[Blade]

Anvil: We're having money problems right now, but we're still getting the Wii.

PS3, as tempting as it is, is just way too expensive. I understand why, but it doesn't change my inability to buy it.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Is anybody else here thinking about going PS360?

I am, but I'll wait for PS3 to drop in price or the good games to come out. I was very interested about the Wii for a while, but that has worn out already, I'm going to give it a try, but I can say that I'm not very interested with it anymore. I like standard games with standard gameplay with good GFX! and I know developers will bring new and interesting stuff for PS3 and X360. I for one think that the Wii-mote is more restricting than freedom giving, I mean it closes more doors than it opens, it probably is great for few games and not as good as pad for larger number of games.

I honestly don't think that we are there yet powerwise, that you can take the Wii route, maybe few generations later when the systems truly have enough power to make it transparent I can let go of this more power now attitude, but not before that. PS3 and X360 are not nearly as powerful as I want to them to be.

Just my thoughts.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Well then i guess what i'm saying is that i am not convinced that this controller would be innovative enough for me to swear off the cutting edge consoles if i could ONLY choose one.

Personal preference. For you, specular highlights are the be-all, end-all of gaming right now. For me, they're not. And what I'm saying, if you followed my examples carefully, is not that the controller itself is the innovation, it's that it's sparking innovation. You look at the other consoles, and what's the big hook being promoted on most of these games? It's Madden with better animation. It's Dynasty Warriors with a bigger view distance and better framerate. It's Quake with normal mapping and shadow volumes. It's the same Marvel superhero game coming out on the PS2, but with totally sweet fire effects. It's Need for Speed with HDR. It's Burnout with self-shadowing. It's Dead or Alive with motion blur.

Now look at most of the games I listed in my first post. Not one of them relied on some fancy new controller or massive system power to be creative. I don't think you need a new controller for new gameplay, not in a metaphysical sense. You don't even need power, either. A talented developer could be more creative on a 486 than most people are being on the X360 and PS3. However, for whatever reason, developers for the most part aren't being creative, and the Wii seems to be inspiring them to push boundaries. It's inspired Sega to re-imagine Sonic in a non-suck way. It's inspired Activision to quit doing the same-ol' same-ol' with the Tony Hawk franchise. It's inspired EA(!) to do something other than a roster update with the next Madden. It's inspired Ubisoft to try out some new things with an FPS and a platformer.

If developers were showing the kind of creativity they did in the early to mid 90's on their own, I probably would be entirely disinterested in the Wii. But they're not, and therefore I'm interested.

 

[Moonblade]

Is anybody else here thinking about going PS360?

I am. I'll buy a PS3 this year and wait for the interesting J-RPG's (blue dragon / lost odysey) to arrive on xbox360.
I've lost my interest in wii.

 

[ZiFF]

So people here think that Redsteel looks better than "Black" on Xbox?

Or Black on PS2 for that matter.

 

[Farid]

Maybe it's just me, but I think in those videos we have "definate proof" of Hollywood's pixel shading capabilities.

No.
Not at all.

 

[cthellis42]

As for sensitivity in connection with it: Who says you have to use linear sensitivity?

Exactly. Which is why I found the quote in one of the IGN interviews pointless: "Originally the plan was to mock PC first-person shooters, but the sensitivity was so great that having the camera tied to the center was dizzying."IMHO, that just points to a developer not thinking things past Step 1.

 

[thenefariousone]

I agree with you in terms of the current hardware not being the reason for a lack of creativity. The answer's probably the usual one: development cost.

I believe there are several reasons to be optimistic in this generation:
1)All of the console makers have either made steps to lower the cost of entry for development, or provided areas where smaller but more innovative game can be made.


2)For the first time, game publishers have a true secondary market for games. Xbox live arcade, Nintendo's virtual console, and Sony's online plans, all offer a place where older titles can be sold.


However - I don't agree about the wii inspiring them to be creative. That's just clever marketing on Nintendo's part. A quick look at the wii's launch lineup reveals many games where the big hook is "game <a-p> but NOW with wii control. Imagine the posibilities..."

a)Madden NFL 07
b)Red Steel
c)Far Cry
d)Cars
e)Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII
f)Blitz: The League
g)Call of Duty 3
h)Tony Hawk's Downhill Jam
i)Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
k)Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
l)Need for Speed: Carbon
m)The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
o)Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blit
p)Metal Slug Anthology
q)Trauma Center: Second Opinion

A lot of publishers, Nintendo included, are re-selling the same old stuff under the "wii = innovative, just because it's on the wii" licence. There will be token gestures made to use the controller, but I don't expect the majority of the ports to do anything innovative.

Personal preference. For you, specular highlights are the be-all, end-all of gaming right now. For me, they're not. And what I'm saying, if you followed my examples carefully, is not that the controller itself is the innovation, it's that it's sparking innovation. You look at the other consoles, and what's the big hook being promoted on most of these games? It's Madden with better animation. It's Dynasty Warriors with a bigger view distance and better framerate. It's Quake with normal mapping and shadow volumes. It's the same Marvel superhero game coming out on the PS2, but with totally sweet fire effects. It's Need for Speed with HDR. It's Burnout with self-shadowing. It's Dead or Alive with motion blur.

Now look at most of the games I listed in my first post. Not one of them relied on some fancy new controller or massive system power to be creative. I don't think you need a new controller for new gameplay, not in a metaphysical sense. You don't even need power, either. A talented developer could be more creative on a 486 than most people are being on the X360 and PS3. However, for whatever reason, developers for the most part aren't being creative, and the Wii seems to be inspiring them to push boundaries. It's inspired Sega to re-imagine Sonic in a non-suck way. It's inspired Activision to quit doing the same-ol' same-ol' with the Tony Hawk franchise. It's inspired EA(!) to do something other than a roster update with the next Madden. It's inspired Ubisoft to try out some new things with an FPS and a platformer.

If developers were showing the kind of creativity they did in the early to mid 90's on their own, I probably would be entirely disinterested in the Wii. But they're not, and therefore I'm interested.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You mean the eyetoy? There are always gimmicks that are tacked onto a system during its lifetime.

Supposedly the EyeToy is to come as standard. That's not at all certain since initial reports of as such, but if so it'll be far more than a gimmick as all devs will have access to it. Though of course at this point in time in deciding machines to buy, you can't rely on EyeToy to give new gaming experiences on PS3 if neither the confirmation as standard device or software for it are announced.

Something Yamauchi said a few years ago rings true in what you've stated. Developers have gotten lazy in part because the console makers have given them the opportunity to get lazy. Why come up with something different if the same control systems are in place and it's prettier graphics?

I think it's the fault of the developers in large part here for being lazy. I also think that's one reason why I've become steadily jaded with gaming. It's usually the same old same old.

...

Now that I think about it, the current realities of the businesses is what dictates their strategies. For Sony and Microsoft, gaming is another way for them to create a revenue stream. For Nintendo, it's the only way for them to create a revenue stream.

I don't think that's a fair assessment of the why games are getting repetitive. I agree Wii looks set to introduce new ideas because the whole system is designed around that, just as DS is, although like DS, not every 'new idea' is a good idea and a lot of the old tried-and-tested ways are still fun. When you're playing those old classics on Virtual Console, the fun you're having won't be because Nintendo have supplied a new controller but because those games are fun. On the other systems, new and exciting is possible, but the games need to be written and the doubt is whether they will.

I don't see that the devs can be blamed though. It's the publishers that decide what gets produced, and devs have to fit in with what the publishers are accepting. If the publishers only play it safe by repeating past success (which is endemic to the media industries) than the content creators have to give them what they want. We have devs speaking out on this often enough, and some like Team17 getting tied into a painfully long franchise when they want to do other games but first and foremost do what pays the bills.

As for publishers I don't think Sony can be criticised for stiffling originality. If you look at the games Sony have funded, there's all sorts of variety. They don't just produce FPS's and racers.

If I were looking for a console for wide variety of games and new interfaces (if money were no object!) I wouldn't instantly consider XB360 or PS3 because the software isn't announced. But I'm expecting a great deal of variety on those platforms. They seem to be embracing the ideas of opening up development, and with downloadable content elliminating the costs needing publishers to cover, devs should have a lot more freedom to create. Coupled with the potential of things like EyeToy and 6 axis motion (which you seem to have missed - DS3 has rotation and linear motion in all 3 axis), there's nothing about the consoles that's stopping them providing as much fun and variety as Wii can have. Ithink your complaints should be levied at the publishers!

 

[cthellis42]

Ithink your complaints should be levied at the publishers!

Yeah... Damn you, Del Rey!

 

[seismologist]

Red Steel made my arm hurt just watching the video.

Elobits looks pretty cool but it seems like the kind of thing that would maybe work better as a DS game.