Are Sony devs aiming higher?

[woundingchaney]

Than the average 360 dev? I cant think of technical reason why anything slated for PS3 couldnt be done on 360... I just get the feeling (Based on target renders and CGI work) that devs expect to be able to "do more" on PS3 than with x360...

Pretty much summed it up for me.

I see quality titles on both consoles.

 

[3roxor]

IMO we still don't know what the 'average' PS3 game looks like, so this bump is too soon. We will know more in summer time.

 

[blakjedi]

3roxor, LBP gave us a clue... and it was significant.

 

[TheChefO]

IMO we still don't know what the 'average' PS3 game looks like, so this bump is too soon. We will know more in summer time.

Well ... to me this thread wasn't about "average" games but the exceptional AAA games. At the time there were not a lot of games that took full advantage of xb360 on the horizon and currently there still aren't. Not to say there aren't some great looking games that have surfaced but to say the top devs are digging as deep on xb360 as they are on ps3 I think would be incorrect. (as far as I know)

Some devs have spoke to interesting things they were playing around with on xb360 and I would really like to hear more in this regard but it seems to be the exception at this point as most of the big hitters on xb360 are still running ue3!

Good thing is they look great in spite of that!

So xb devs, prove this thread wrong!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

At the time there were not a lot of games that took full advantage of xb360 on the horizon and currently there still aren't.

Not that I disagree, but on grounds of proper discussion, how do we know when a game is taking full advantage of the hardware? How do we know current titles aren't the peak of a console's abilities? To say there aren't any titles taking full advantage of XB360 implies some sort of measure by which you know when there is. We'd really need to see software profiles to know when a title is pushing the system - what's on screen doesn't really tell us that. I mean, we have no idea whether LBP is using 90% of PS3's resources, or 10%, so how can we use it as a measure? Same with GeOW or Crackdown.

 

[TheChefO]

Not that I disagree, but on grounds of proper discussion, how do we know when a game is taking full advantage of the hardware? How do we know current titles aren't the peak of a console's abilities? To say there aren't any titles taking full advantage of XB360 implies some sort of measure by which you know when there is. We'd really need to see software profiles to know when a title is pushing the system - what's on screen doesn't really tell us that. I mean, we have no idea whether LBP is using 90% of PS3's resources, or 10%, so how can we use it as a measure? Same with GeOW or Crackdown.

Well ... I didn't say "any" I said there aren't a lot. What I mean by take advantage is:
-predicated tiling >
-4xAA@
-720p
-usage of the tesselation unit
-memexport

These features are built into the hardware. Some devs have briefly touched on dabling in some of these features potentially for upcoming games, but it is hardly the rule AFAIK. Beyond these we see talented devs on ps3 pushing the hardware beyond the theoretical limits even now. Years from now who knows how the dev landscape will shape up but currently it seems MS's goal was quantity... hence ue3 games for many AAA 1st, 2nd, and 3rd party games.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Well ... I didn't say "any" I said there aren't a lot. What I mean by take advantage is:
-predicated tiling >
-4xAA@
-720p
-usage of the tesselation unit
-memexport

Yes, but how do you know if games are using those, and even if they can use those? ie. What if there are limits that prevent, say, tesselation working effectively with tiled rendering, so you have to choose one or the other?

More importantly, my original concern rephrased, how do you know devs aren't digging as deep into XB360 as they are digging into PS3? How can anyone know, without performance analysis of titles? For all we know, GeOW used 85% of available performance on XB360 and there isn't a great deal of headroom for improvement (and this can be applied to the best looking current titles on any platform).

 

[aselto]

Well ... I didn't say "any" I said there aren't a lot. What I mean by take advantage is:
-predicated tiling >
-4xAA@
-720p
-usage of the tesselation unit
-memexport

These features are built into the hardware. Some devs have briefly touched on dabling in some of these features potentially for upcoming games, but it is hardly the rule AFAIK. Beyond these we see talented devs on ps3 pushing the hardware beyond the theoretical limits even now. Years from now who knows how the dev landscape will shape up but currently it seems MS's goal was quantity... hence ue3 games for many AAA 1st, 2nd, and 3rd party games.

Many developers are still working on their 1st generation games for 360, so maybe they don't dig too deep into the hardware. I believe in 3rd or 4th year or 360's life devs will have to use them to remain competetive to other 360 devs. PS3 probably has many unusued hardware features as well.

I think that MS's goal wasn't quantity as 1st party devs use their own engines (Bungie, Rare, Lionhead, Turn10), but use of UE3 in Gears, Mass Effect, Too Human and others was decision made by both MS and a developer (Epic, Bioware, Silicon Knights and others).

More importantly, my original concern rephrased, how do you know devs aren't digging as deep into XB360 as they are digging into PS3? How can anyone know, without performance analysis of titles? For all we know, GeOW used 85% of available performance on XB360 and there isn't a great deal of headroom for improvement (and this can be applied to the best looking current titles on any platform).

Well, I think nice comparison would be Xbox 1. It was more straightforward than 360 and it had also a Unreal Engine game a year after console's launch that blew everyone away (Splinter Cell). Yet it definitely showed a lot more in next 3 years.

 

[TheChefO]

Yes, but how do you know if games are using those, and even if they can use those? ie. What if there are limits that prevent, say, tesselation working effectively with tiled rendering, so you have to choose one or the other?

More importantly, my original concern rephrased, how do you know devs aren't digging as deep into XB360 as they are digging into PS3? How can anyone know, without performance analysis of titles? For all we know, GeOW used 85% of available performance on XB360 and there isn't a great deal of headroom for improvement (and this can be applied to the best looking current titles on any platform).

General utilization is one thing, using unique features of a console is another.

The greatest thing that could come from this thread IMO would be for more xb devs to come in here share their insight in a similar fashion to what we have with Ninja Theory and all the other Sony devs.

The only thing I can comment on is what I read in an interview or tidbits from posts here 'n there.

You're right, some things do seem to be a tradeoff. But then many thought the trade-off for ps3 was hdr or AA ... yet here's this thing called nAo32

Behind the scenes insight is rare with xb devs it seems but from what has been shared does not dispell the thought of devs using the hardware and getting good results but not fully utilizing it at this point. AFAIK.

 

[Lycan]

"Beyond these we see talented devs on ps3 pushing the hardware beyond the theoretical limits even now"

When the console has 4 months and is definitely more complicated ? I disagree, sir ! :smile:
We're still in the launch phase, there is plenty of time before second gen games hit the plateform...

 

[Sindre]

Just came by this new (?) info concerning the outcome of the Cellius Project (Sony+Namco). . .


http://ps3.qj.net/Scans-of-three-exclusive-PS3-titles-from-the-Cellius-project/pg/49/aid/87267
(By the way, I hope I'm not breaking any rules by linking to this site) *Runs and hides*

Some translation of the text in the pictures would be informative though!;-)


Sindre

 

[quest55720]

I would say so far yes sony developers are aiming higher on games that are exclusive. It seems UE3 is just to nice to pass up for many 360 developers. I also think there is more pressure on sony's internal studios to produce games that look 200 dollars better than the 360. I can only hope halo3 and FM2 blow me away by using the 360 to its max.

 

[quest55720]

"Beyond these we see talented devs on ps3 pushing the hardware beyond the theoretical limits even now"

When the console has 4 months and is definitely more complicated ? I disagree, sir ! :smile:
We're still in the launch phase, there is plenty of time before second gen games hit the plateform...

Developers for the PS3 have had good kits longer than MS developers. Look at the crap MS developers had until near E3 05. At least PS3 developers have had the cell for a long long time the most important piece to have early. MS developers got xenos way late in the game and it is showing as a lot of games don't seem to be using xenos unique features.

 

[Pozer]

Not many ps2/xbox1 games took advantage of all of their respective hardware either. Maybe a handful of games a year are true technical marvels.

 

[TheChefO]

Not many ps2/xbox1 games took advantage of all of their respective hardware either. Maybe a handful of games a year are true technical marvels.

Agreed but none have been mentioned to be currently in development to utilize the full featureset of xb360. Perhaps e3 will shed light on this issue and hopefully xb360 devs can take this thread out back and shoot it.

 

[mckmas8808]

Agreed but none have been mentioned to be currently in development to utilize the full featureset of xb360. Perhaps e3 will shed light on this issue and hopefully xb360 devs can take this thread out back and shoot it.

To me we have to wait at least until 2008 to see this aiming higher quality.

 

[Arwin]

Developers for the PS3 have had good kits longer than MS developers. Look at the crap MS developers had until near E3 05. At least PS3 developers have had the cell for a long long time the most important piece to have early. MS developers got xenos way late in the game and it is showing as a lot of games don't seem to be using xenos unique features.

However that may be, a game like Resistance did not yet have streaming textures. But the next generation (in Insomniac's case Ratchet & Clank later this year, and then Resistance 2 the year after) will feature this, as I'm sure will Killzone 2 and several other titles. This is what made Gears stand out so much, and it just goes to show that we're really not yet even starting to see the full potential of these two consoles.

 

[NERO]

Are Sony devs aiming higher?

There are Sony, Msft and multiplat devs in the forum why don't we just ask them?

B3d: Are you aiming higher?
Sony: Yes.
Msft: Yes.
Mlpt: Yes. Yes.

 

[TheChefO]

To me we have to wait at least until 2008 to see this aiming higher quality.

2008? HS should be shipping this year (even if it is just before Christmas!)
Not to mention if Drake hits this year or KermZghrhrgm {shhh}

I think these titles will be struting their stuff quite well. The "aiming higher" sentiment seems to belong to third parties currently (vs last gen (BF:BC )).

 

[Todd33]

Are Sony devs aiming higher?

There are Sony, Msft and multiplat devs in the forum why don't we just ask them?

B3d: Are you aiming higher?
Sony: Yes.
Msft: Yes.
Mlpt: Yes. Yes.

I'd say
Sony: Yes.
Msft: Yes.
Mlpt: Yes. Yes.
EA, Activision: No