Objects in the universe

london-boy said:
You didn't answer all the trivia questions!! what kind of scientist are you!!! ;)
I'm busy phoning a friend and asking the audience! ;)

OK I'm doing this quickly, so I could end up looking like a total idiot if my numbers are wrong! Assuming a teaspoon of neutron star matter is ~5x10^11 kg, and you are a ~70kg, from 1 metre away the mutual gravitational attraction between you and it would be ~2.3kN. Your "weight" would be about 700N. So yes, it would be sufficient to pull you levitate you off the ground if, for example, it was suspended a metre or so above you. This only works close up though; more than a few metres away the effect would be much less noticeable.

As for whether it would fall into the Earth, it would certainly exert a huge pressure on any surface it was placed on (5x10^11kg/cm^2) so maybe it would.
 
nutball said:
I'm busy phoning a friend and asking the audience! ;)

OK I'm doing this quickly, so I could end up looking like a total idiot if my numbers are wrong! Assuming a teaspoon of neutron star matter is ~5x10^11 kg, and you are a ~70kg, from 1 metre away the mutual gravitational attraction between you and it would be ~2.3kN. Your "weight" would be about 700N. So yes, it would be sufficient to pull you levitate you off the ground if, for example, it was suspended a metre or so above you. This only works close up though; more than a few metres away the effect would be much less noticeable.

As for whether it would fall into the Earth, it would certainly exert a huge pressure on any surface it was placed on (5x10^11kg/cm^2) so maybe it would.

Thanks!! I'm trying to think what would happen if i fell into something that's actually smaller than me... err...
 
london-boy said:
Thanks!! I'm trying to think what would happen if i fell into something that's actually smaller than me... err...

Hehe!!! You'd be compressed into little slimy something. Speak about proper recycling... ;)
 
K.I.L.E.R said:
someElement >= Iron = absorbs energy under fusion at normal star energy dispertion.
Supernovae fixes this by overheating past what a normal star can do, iron becomes fused and process is restarted over and over again until a heavier element is formed and the current level of energy is inadequate to fuse the element.
Okay, not quite. Iron is the end-point of nuclear fusion. Iron is the most stable element, and normal fusion will no longer occur to produce heavier elements.

The trigger of a supernova explosion is that the nuclear fusion turns off. It may sound a bit strange, but the thing that is keeping any star from catastrophic heating is its nuclear reaction. The basic idea is this: normally stars are supported by their temperature. Once their nuclear reaction turns off, their temperature drops a bit, and they collapse. But the equations work out so that the net temperature change with this collapse is positive, because as the star collapses it needs to support more density, which requires higher temperatures.

So, once the nuclear reaction of a star has given out, it will start to heat up. As it heats up, it will release energy faster and faster, and thus collapse faster and faster. This is a supernova explosion, the end result of which depends upon the mass of the star.

Low-mass stars become supported by electron degeneracy pressure. This is basically your good old Pauli exclusion principle at work: since electrons are fermions, no two electrons can occupy the same state at the same time. This pressure will prevent lower-mass stars from collapsing beyond a certain point, and since their nuclear fuel is spend, they become a hot little ball that just radiates the last of its energy over a rather long period of time. These are white dwarfs.

Larger stars become supported by neutron degeneracy pressure. This is what happens to a star when the electron degeneracy pressure isn't enough to keep the star from total collapse. The electrons are basically pushed into the protons, leaving only neutrons (though the final state of such a star may be more complex than just a big ball of neutrons). Like white dwarfs, neutron stars start off as very hot, and eventually cool off.

Also like white dwarfs, there is a maximum mass allowed by neutron degeneracy pressure. If the mass of the remaining core of a star is larger than this limit, the final state is a black hole: with no amount of pressure being able to sustain the object, it just collapses to nothingness or near-nothingness. These explosions are significantly more massive than the above explosions, and are believed to be the cause of one of the two classes of gamma ray bursts.

Edit: By the way, elements heavier than iron are believed to be formed during supernova explosions, as the extreme high temperatures and pressures will randomly create some of these elements in trace amounts.
 
Chalnoth said:
Edit: By the way, elements heavier than iron are believed to be formed during supernova explosions, as the extreme high temperatures and pressures will randomly create some of these elements in trace amounts.
Or, in other words: part of you and the Earth (probably a large part) has been inside a supernova explosion long ago.

:D
 
Dave B(TotalVR) said:
Thre is something larger, and my girlfriend knows all about it! ;)
As I recall, the last time you brought THAT up, the thread got locked in rather short order! :LOL:

edit:Nutball said:
As for whether it would fall into the Earth, it would certainly exert a huge pressure on any surface it was placed on (5x10^11kg/cm^2) so maybe it would.
I think anything that weighs 500 billion kilos, but only has the surface area of 1-2cm^2 or so exerts enough force to break pretty much any ordinary material we can care to think of, including solid bedrock. The thing would push its way through down to the center of the earth sort of like a finger poked into jello. Or well, maybe not quite like that, heh. It would be fun to know what kind of speed a projectile like that might attain on its way down...

That is assuming it doesn't instantly explode and obliterate a large chunk of the surface of our planet of course, once the neutron star matter is removed from the intense gravitational field that keeps it in a pure neutron form...heh.

Another crazy thought:
If we built some Star Trek-esque fantastic machine that manipulates timespace in such a way that it counters the gravitational field of a neutron star and gradually reverses it until matter is able to expand back to normal size again all at once, what kind of force would that blast generate? :D
 
Btw, Guden, that was nutball who made that statement, not me :)

Guden Oden said:
That is assuming it doesn't instantly explode and obliterate a large chunk of the surface of our planet of course, once the neutron star matter is removed from the intense gravitational field that keeps it in a pure neutron form...heh.
Yes, this is what's likely to happen. I mean, it may not actually explode, but it will certainly decay into normal atoms once removed from the immense pressures of the neutron star. I'm just not sure how fast.
 
That's one thing that always puzzled me with neutron stars but never got around to finding out - what prevents the neutrons from decaying in neutron stars, given that the object is clearly larger than the range of the strong interaction?
 
Neeyik said:
That's one thing that always puzzled me with neutron stars but never got around to finding out - what prevents the neutrons from decaying in neutron stars, given that the object is clearly larger than the range of the strong interaction?
The immense pressures favor the configuration of neutrons over the configuration of protons and electrons.
 
Guden Oden said:
I think anything that weighs 500 billion kilos, but only has the surface area of 1-2cm^2 or so exerts enough force to break pretty much any ordinary material we can care to think of, including solid bedrock. The thing would push its way through down to the center of the earth sort of like a finger poked into jello. Or well, maybe not quite like that, heh. It would be fun to know what kind of speed a projectile like that might attain on its way down...
It seems to be that a chunk of neutronium would have no, or very little, friction. Thus, it would fall through the Earth's crust very easily and would oscillate back and forth through the Earth's center of gravity. Of course, since the Earth rotates, it would take a different path each time. This sounds like a "Bad Thing" (TM).
 
Well, fortunately neutronium isn't stable except in the center of a neutron star.

Strange matter, on the other hand, could be worse, as it is theorized to be stable outside of the immense temperatures and pressures that created it:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.02/matter.html

Now, I would like to voice a rather strong objection to one particular paragraph in the above article, however:
Part of the problem is that they would really rather not have their dark matter made up of strange nuggets. Particle physicists are interested in dark matter because it might be made of particles they haven't yet been given enough money to make in their laboratories. If the dark matter is made up of dull old quarks, it's less exciting (and less likely to inspire new funding). What's more, to appreciate the strength of the Herrin team's data, you need to think about various aspects of geophysics, which cosmologists and particle physicists - the discipline's stars and aristocrats - don't often deign to do. The general response from the particle people and the cosmos crowd is a noncommittal grunt of "come back when you've got more data."
I take personal offense to this. There are much stronger reasons to disbelieve that strange matter makes up dark matter. For one, consider that we have evidence for the existence of dark matter in the very early universe from the cosmic microwave background, and any theory that supposes that strange matter might be dark matter must explain this data. A naiive application of the idea of strange matter would not.

A second reason would be the stability of stars. If strange matter is so stable, you might expect that particles of strange matter would periodically get stuck within stars. Eventually such a particle would lose enough energy to settle at the core of the star where the nuclear reaction is occuring, and since particles are reacting at nuclear energies there, you might expect the strange matter to slowly accrete matter from the star.

Now, these are just cursory analyses, and may fall down upon further investigation, but I claim that because of simple arguments like this, any proponents of strange matter as dark energy need to do a fair amount of work before their theory is accepted by the community of cosmologists.
 
I believe the Mu Cephei shown in the video is about 25 solar masses, and to be ~1,400x the diameter of the sun implies that the big red ball is a cloud of not-too-dense gas. However, it's in its dying stages, and is most likely fusing helium into carbon... meaning it's not too far from supernova (maybe it already has and we haven't seen it do so from 3000 lightyears away).
 
Iron is THE universal energy sink: everything below releases energy when it fuses, while everything above releases energy when it splits. The moment a star starts to accumulate (fuse) iron in it's core, the end is near.
 
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