Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[Shifty Geezer]

I believe they forbid alcohol consumption in the hospital.

It messes with the meds.

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the meds aren't working

There are clear advantages for RayTracing over traditional Rasterization especially in the area of Pixel density on the screen.

Yeah, we need a whole discussion on the pros and cons of RayTracing here in this thread on next-gen CPU and GPU. Maybe I should select this thread all about Ray Tracing vs. Rasterisation and import it here?

Maybe I should just go to the root forum, press Ctrl-A, and merge everything single thread into this one?

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[deanos]

Can Sony use 512MB additonal, stacked LPDDR2 RAM for the OS like they did with the Vita? Like someone on GAF said - you don't need to add any board complexity if you just stack it on top of the southbridge and use the bus between the southbridge and APU, which is fast enough for OS tasks.

It doesn't really make sense having 4GB of GDDR5 in the console since it's more expensive, and waste some of it with the OS.

 

[anexanhume]

Can Sony use 512MB additonal, stacked LPDDR2 RAM for the OS like they did with the Vita? Like someone on GAF said - you don't need to add any board complexity if you just stack it on top of the southbridge and use the bus between the southbridge and APU, which is fast enough for OS tasks.

It doesn't really make sense having 4GB of GDDR5 in the console since it's more expensive, and waste some of it with the OS.

So you add more expense by adding a part to the BOM and a more costly/challenging stacking addition?

 

[deanos]

So you add more expense by adding a part to the BOM and a more costly/challenging stacking addition?

1GB DDR3 chip price is below the 2$ mark.

 

[MrFox]

Can Sony use 512MB additonal, stacked LPDDR2 RAM for the OS like they did with the Vita? Like someone on GAF said - you don't need to add any board complexity if you just stack it on top of the southbridge and use the bus between the southbridge and APU, which is fast enough for OS tasks.

It doesn't really make sense having 4GB of GDDR5 in the console since it's more expensive, and waste some of it with the OS.

They can't stack memory on a high power chip. Heat and DRAM don't go well together. Interposer, maybe, but that would be for speed and would replace the GDDR5.
I seriously doubt there will be 1GB permanently reserved for the OS while playing a game.
I really thought they'd add some DDR3 on a narrow bus, they could use it for I/O buffer and OS. It's not very expensive and very useful.

 

[deanos]

I really thought they'd add some DDR3 on a narrow bus, they could use it for I/O buffer and OS. It's not very expensive and very useful.

why are you talking in past tense, they can still do this lol.

 

[Bagel seed]

Shifty going mad, lol

They can't stack memory on a high power chip. Heat and DRAM don't go well together. Interposer, maybe, but that would be for speed and would replace the GDDR5.
I seriously doubt there will be 1GB permanently reserved for the OS while playing a game.
I really thought they'd add some DDR3 on a narrow bus, they could use it for I/O buffer and OS. It's not very expensive and very useful.

I don't think there's any hard and fast rule when it comes to stacking but in general I think they usually keep the higher power logic dies down low and memory higher up. FWIW Vita had 1gb and 2gb density DRAM chips on the top. That's if they go full 3D setup and not 2.5D with memory sitting beside logic. In the end I think they'll just go full DDR4 and if they need more they should just add more DDR4... no need for multiple types.

 

[Aeoniss]

Thoughts?

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1769813/nextgen_xbox_720_will_be_more_powerful_than_ps4_report.html

 

[jonabbey]

Thoughts?

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1769813/nextgen_xbox_720_will_be_more_powerful_than_ps4_report.html

Already linked in this thread, and full of gibberish.

 

[Aeoniss]

My bad. I didn't know it was already quoted.

 

[anexanhume]

1GB DDR3 chip price is below the 2$ mark.

Times 50 million shipped consoles is $100,000,000. System integrators pay attention to all costs.

 

[expletive]

With regards to the dualpixels article...

This isn't the first time I have heard about yield problems with some of Durango's silicon (probably the same source repeated in different venues) but wouldn't it be too early for a 'current yield issue' to be driving a launch strategy?

Assuming a November launch, how long would either company have to solve a potential yield problem to have respectable numbers available at launch?

 

[DieH@rd]

If they already want to place OS on expensive and fast GDDR5, why not limit it at 256/512MB during gaming? Or do they REALLY want entire OS running in the background, always providing full PS4 experience to all users all the time?

 

[Helmore]

If they already want to place OS on expensive and fast GDDR5, why not limit it at 256/512MB during gaming? Or do they REALLY want entire OS running in the background, always providing full PS4 experience to all users all the time.

With the intention of going to 1 GB when you switch to using the 'OS'? Wouldn't that give the game developers a major headache? One moment your game has 3.5 GB available to itself and then another moment only 3 GB......

As for the neXtBox, isn't 3 GB rather much OS reserved space? Ah well, I guess we've already discussed that topic before as well....

 

[JasonLD]

It is kinda funny that Nowgamers rumor indicates Next Xbox would have "blitter". That idea didnt float around until we had started talking about it.

 

[ERP]

With regards to the dualpixels article...

This isn't the first time I have heard about yield problems with some of Durango's silicon (probably the same source repeated in different venues) but wouldn't it be too early for a 'current yield issue' to be driving a launch strategy?

Assuming a November launch, how long would either company have to solve a potential yield problem to have respectable numbers available at launch?

Ideally they'be be producing early steppings of the chips in quantity for "beta" devkits now.
If you figure 3 or 4 steppings at 4-6 week intervals, you are going to start manufacturing late spring, the later you start the less boxes you have to put on a shelf.
How much yield would affect things, depends on what the yield issue is.

 

[anexanhume]

If they already want to place OS on expensive and fast GDDR5, why not limit it at 256/512MB during gaming? Or do they REALLY want entire OS running in the background, always providing full PS4 experience to all users all the time?

Why not give them a small NAND to suspend to? Still, I think pervasive OS is the way we're going given the pervasiveness of multitasking. Even the vita can do it.

 

[Carl B]

Some posts deleted - calm people, calm...

 

[Cyan]

It is kinda funny that Nowgamers rumor indicates Next Xbox would have "blitter". That idea didnt float around until we had started talking about it.

The internet is serious business. :smile:

I think we've confused ourselves a little.

Everywhere I see the blitter mentioned I can't help it but think it is fake because Shifty naively posted about it here and this blitter appeared in almost every article afterwards.

Too much of a coincidence. If one of the next consoles features a blitter /the new buzzword/ then hats off to Shifty and his extrasensory qualities. I just hope he doesn't get banned for unveiling it. >D That is all.

 

[MrFox]

I don't think there's any hard and fast rule when it comes to stacking but in general I think they usually keep the higher power logic dies down low and memory higher up. FWIW Vita had 1gb and 2gb density DRAM chips on the top. That's if they go full 3D setup and not 2.5D with memory sitting beside logic. In the end I think they'll just go full DDR4 and if they need more they should just add more DDR4... no need for multiple types.

The Vita chip is running very cool (maybe a watt or two?), that's why they could do it. DRAM is sensitive to heat, putting it on top of a 100W die is a major engineering problem. That's why everyone is suggesting 2.5D as the solution, it would work with the latest wide I/O memory standard (HBM) and provide amazing speed. I think cost is still up in the air, so is yield. Nobody really knows.

I think a 4Gbit wide I/O memory is somewhere around 100mm2, so having multiple stacks would require a pretty big interposer. Earlier someone posted a Global Foundry image of a 2.5D chip (with two small pieces on the right of the big die) it was speculated to be an AMD GPU with stacked memory, but I doubt it, because the memory parts are way too small in the picture.