Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[McHuj]

Okay. I guess an APU+GPU combo would see the APU as a heavy-lifting processor via GPGPU. If the APU is running graphics in parallel with the GPU, I don't see the advantage versus a monolithic GPU.

I've been thinking about that lately. What if the AMD CPU is paired with some combination of GCN CU's, but without the ROPs, Texture Units, and anything else a full GPU needs. They're calling it an APU, but it's really just a stripped down CPU with no FP unit, but using GCN SIMDs as a Vector Unit for all the FP processing.

Perhaps taking that approach will simplify the programming model. In theory, all your GPU and vectorizable CPU code, could look the same and if there's a large shared and coherent L3 cache between the CPU and GPU, you could move your code between the two easily.

A GCN compute unit consists of 4 16-wide vector SIMDs. If you paired a 500 MHz CU unit with a core (assuming 8 cores), you could get a theoretical performance of 512 gigaflops from the CPU.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If Microsoft chooses Nvidia for the gpu , can they have GPGPU stuff ?

Absolutely.

I've been thinking about that lately. What if the AMD CPU is paired with some combination of GCN CU's, but without the ROPs, Texture Units, and anything else a full GPU needs. They're calling it an APU, but it's really just a stripped down CPU with no FP unit, but using GCN SIMDs as a Vector Unit for all the FP processing.

I'm sure devs would want the FP unit for running cross-platform code without reengineering everything for GCN units. But the idea of removing the graphical aspects is an interesting one to save transistors. The CPU could still help with a lot of GPU rendering tasks while retaining GPGPU processing capabilities.

 

[Rangers]

It seems that way. This gen will be a huge win for AMD.

AMD's stock is tumbling, nearing $4 last I looked. Their revenue is dropping YoY. They dont have any presence in mobile (tablets/phones) which is growing, only PC which is declining. I'm actually amazed they're still putting out such great graphics cards with a likely limited R&D budget.
It wouldn't shock me if Nvidia eventually buys them or something like that.

Would be sort of "interesting" from a next gen console perspective to have tech from a nonexistant company, but I guess it wouldn't have any practical effect.

lherre alert, some of his latest posts on gaf (7/18), seemingly could be read to indicate the switch to 4GB in PS4 is a done deal.

He hints around at Durango/Orbis having 2x+ the RAM of Wii U, and a 2GB+ difference. If Wii U is truly 2GB it means 4GB Orbis.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39994864&postcount=9342

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39994471&postcount=9338

I have noticed recently he is much more cautious and couches his posts more as "his opinion" lol. But it's still obvious he's speaking from knowledge. Poor guy, his every word being taken and ran with.

 

[ninelven]

It wouldn't shock me if Nvidia eventually buys them or something like that.

I doubt Nvidia would ever really buy them... maybe like they "bought" 3dfx. Part of Nvidia's success stems from the fact they have significantly fewer employees to pay.

I also doubt there is anyone else who really wants to buy AMD. The only interesting play I can think of is if MS or Apple were to buy them. I imagine Intel wouldn't like that...

For AMD's sake, I would much rather see revenue shrink a little and profitability increase than the other way around. You can't stay in business continually operating at a loss...

EDIT: Actually, I think buying AMD could be a really solid move for MS. Market cap is only 3 billion right now. They just wrote off what 6 billion. Surely the value is there.

EDIT2: Would only be ~ 1/3rd of what they paid for Skype... oh my.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Nvidia isn't ever buying AMD for a ton of reasons (x86 license issues, monopoly issues).

 

[bgassassin]

There is a memeber in GAF that claimed Sony switched to Jaguar cores for the APU in PS4. But he said he was no insider, but has a room mate that works at Ati. lherre told in the spanish forum where he is more active that the Xbox 3 dev kits have an 8 low speed core CPU (low end cores) with 8 Gb of RAM, and a DX10 GPU with some DX11 features. According to him, EA said BF3 already runs at mid settings at 30 fps with DX11 effects.

This might indicate bgassassin was accurate when he told a GAF member we does not think Durango is a beast compared to anything.

Can you link to the original post where he said the part in bold?

 

[SKYSONY]

Can you link to the original post where he said the part in bold?

http://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_olea...-nucleos-2-graficas_1682249_s2240#p1729252746

Yo conozco a alguien, a alguien que muchos de vosotros, los que frecuentais webs de videojuegos, conoceis. Al menos conoceis su nombre. Es español. Según él, los kits de xbox que ya estan en manos de algunas desarroyadoras llevan procesador de 8 nucleos de baja velocidad (procesadores de 8 nucleos de gama baja, vamos) 8 gigas de memoria ram (que casualidad, como queria Cryteck de minimo...) y una grafica dx10 nativa compatible con funciones DX11. Segun él, EA ya corre el BF3 "de PC" con parte de los efectos propios del dx11 a 30 frames constantes con settings en "mid".

Yo personalmente no le creo, pues viendo el panorama apostaria porque la consola sea menos potente que eso, aunque por otro lado y como dice él, hay que pensar que esa consola estará en las tiendas en 2014, dentro de mas o menos 24 meses, y el hardware que monta es actual, y durante estos dos años se devaluará lo suficiente como para que en el momento de comercializarla no se vaya de precio. De todos modos, los kits son prototipos tipo. Pero igual no me cuadra mucho las piezas que dice que lleva el kit y las cosas que dice que hace (por escasas).

The forumer that refers to lherre. I think he talked to him via PM. I have already sent him a PM in order to see if I can get some additional info. The post is from June.

I find a bit hard to believe that the Durango GPU is a DX10 one. This, and the 8 low speed cores sound a bit too much like the leaked specs.

What do you think?

 

[onQ]

http://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_olea...-nucleos-2-graficas_1682249_s2240#p1729252746




The forumer that refers to lherre. I think he talked to him via PM. I have already sent him a PM in order to see if I can get some additional info. The post is from June.

I find a bit hard to believe that the Durango GPU is a DX10 one. This, and the 8 low speed cores sound a bit too much like the leaked specs.

What do you think?

Google Translate

__________________________________________________________________________

"I know someone, someone who many of you who frecuentais gaming sites, you know. At least know her name. Is Spanish. According to him, xbox kits that are already in the hands of some desarroyadoras 8 processor cores are low speed (8-core processors, low-end we) 8 gigs of RAM (what a coincidence, as I wanted Cryteck of minimum .. .) and a native dx10 graphics supports DX11 features. According to him, EA and runs the BF3 "PC" with some of the specific effects of DX11 at 30 frames consistent with settings in "mid".

I personally do not believe, for seeing the picture would bet because the console is less powerful than that, but on the other hand, as he says, think that this console will hit stores in 2014, within 24 months or so, and hardware that is currently mounted, and during these two years will be devalued enough to sell it at the time will not be priced. However, such kits are prototypes. But I do not block much like parts bearing the kit says and the things it says it does (for rare)."
_______________________________________________________________________

 

[bgassassin]

http://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_olea...-nucleos-2-graficas_1682249_s2240#p1729252746




The forumer that refers to lherre. I think he talked to him via PM. I have already sent him a PM in order to see if I can get some additional info. The post is from June.

I find a bit hard to believe that the Durango GPU is a DX10 one. This, and the 8 low speed cores sound a bit too much like the leaked specs.

What do you think?

Thanks. That DX10 comment does seem weird. The rest makes sense based on what I know.

 

[RudeCurve]

In other words Durango will be using a custom 8 core Trinity APU?

 

[ninelven]

I was guessing ARM cores...

 

[RudeCurve]

If they are indeed ARM cores I hope they're ARM v8.

 

[XpiderMX]

http://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_olea...-nucleos-2-graficas_1682249_s2240#p1729252746




The forumer that refers to lherre. I think he talked to him via PM. I have already sent him a PM in order to see if I can get some additional info. The post is from June.

I find a bit hard to believe that the Durango GPU is a DX10 one. This, and the 8 low speed cores sound a bit too much like the leaked specs.

What do you think?

He really looks like a troll, I don't believe him.

 

[french toast]

If they are indeed ARM cores I hope they're ARM v8.

Microsoft has a license don't they? I'm sure they are cooking something up..whether that's for xbox..who knows?

 

[archangelmorph]

Microsoft has a license don't they? I'm sure they are cooking something up..whether that's for xbox..who knows?

They already have...

It's confirmed the Microsoft Surface (Tablet PC) comes in both ARM & Intel CPU flavours.

 

[Rangers]

They're most likely slated to be AMD "Jaguar" cores.

Thanks. That DX10 comment does seem weird. The rest makes sense based on what I know.

Yeah, that makes no sense. AMD's last DX 10 GPU's were the 4XXX line.

This "info" from the spanish poster is interesting, but since it is allegedly 2nd hand I cannot give it that much credence.

 

[Kaotik]

They already have...

It's confirmed the Microsoft Surface (Tablet PC) comes in both ARM & Intel CPU flavours.

Yeah, except that the ARM version has nothing to do with MS having or not having a license, it uses Tegra (3) (even though that seems really stupid, considering that Cortex A15's are out or coming out atm, and Qualcomm S4 Krait is out already, and the damn thing doesn't even have native modem with it, but you need 2nd chip for even just 3G connections)

 

[french toast]

Yeah, except that the ARM version has nothing to do with MS having or not having a license, it uses Tegra (3)

Yea bit ms does have a v8 license I think..so they can in theory build there own core?...

 

[McHuj]

So hypothetically if some of the above rumors, were true, what exactly would a DX10 GPU with some DX11 features be? Is there anything in DX11 that wouldn't be needed (or desired) in a console? It doesn't seem to me that there's anything obvious to drop.

 

[Mianca]

So hypothetically if some of the above rumors, were true, what exactly would a DX10 GPU with some DX11 features be?

Hypothetically, IMGTEC's new Series 6 / Rogue design comes to my mind:

Shedding more light on feature support for the first time, Imagination has announced that the baseline graphics feature set for Series 6 will include support for OpenGL ES “Halti”, the current working name for ES 3.0, itself derived from OpenGL 3.x. In terms of DirectX generations, this would make Series 6 a DirectX 10 part, analogous to the GeForce 8/9/200 series, the Radeon 2000-4000 series, and Intel’s HD2000/3000 iGPUs. Interestingly enough Imagination will also be offering designs that are DirectX 11.1/OpenGL 4.x compliant, which would bring them to parity with the very latest GPUs from AMD and NVIDIA.

Meanwhile on the compute side OpenCL will also be supported, and while Imagination doesn’t list the specific version we believe they will be conformant up to version 1.1. Microsoft’s DirectCompute is not specifically mentioned, however at a minimum the DX11.1 parts would need to support it.