Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
- Thread starter Acert93
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A higher speed narrower bus has different latency behaviour compared to a wider slower bus.
Kotaku is floating this patent as for the 720, but most likely this is just for the 360. Though it could be for the repurposed 360 as a set-top box.
http://kotaku.com/5872787/patents-show-that-the-next-xbox-might-be-a-dvr-too
Tommy McClain
http://kotaku.com/5872787/patents-show-that-the-next-xbox-might-be-a-dvr-too
Tommy McClain
A 256 bit bus is no biggie, with regard to pins and traces. The PS3 has essentially two 128 bit buses (the rambus bus is 64 data bits, but each bit requires two pins for the differential signal) and those two buses requires separate adddress pins which increases the number of pins even more. The Xenos chip had quite a lot of pins as well if you consider the EDRAM interface beside the 128 bit GDDR3 interface.
I think the biggest obstacle for 4 GB of memory in the next gen consoles is the number of memory units it would require (16 pcs of 2 Mbit GDDR5). That is twice the number of units of the launch 360 and PS3 and that was really pushing it. Remember that MS originally wanted to go with half of that, but Epic convinced them to change it because of the visible benefits.
This time I don´t think the visible benfits will be that tangible to motivate the extra cost.
I really hope I am wrong, but I am pessimistic.
Agree with this. I dont think "pins and traces" are really going to be huge factors in any cost decisions when compared to just about anything else.
Of course I do agree the manufacturers dislike of large 256-bit GPU's stands. But I think motherboard traces are given a bit too much credit round here as costs. And I'll even say number of memory chips as well. I'll stand by that I just cant imagine only 2GB going into PS4/XBFusion
TheWretched
Regular
That SCREAMS prior art to me... I mean, it's not like both PSX (PS2 with DVR) and PS3 (with Tome etc.) already do that for god knows how long.
Yeah, prior art doesn't matter. The Patent Office doesn't get paid for rejecting patent based on prior art, so by granting patents that they shouldn't, they get paid, and then their friends the lawyers get paid when the patents are disputed in court and the prior art raised.
TheWretched
Regular
Well... my point was, that it isn't just prior art, but REALLY prior art, as in "old hardware has had this feature for a WHILE already"...
The patent system is a boon to society at large.
The patent system is a boon to society at large.
You have also interest in Patents, depose them to not be attack by patent troll. And I'm think that it's the case here. M$ don't patent the fact a console record a stream, but more how this function in their consoles.
For this M$ patent, the system is different than PSX or PS3. M$ recorded directly the stream , it's like the French ISP box function.
The mother of a clerk that work in the market where the wife of a friend of a guy that know someone that has the parking lot near that of kutaragy's uncle said that this E3 is the right one
http://www.neowin.net/news/report-xbox-360-and-ps3-successors-to-be-shown-at-e3
http://www.neowin.net/news/report-xbox-360-and-ps3-successors-to-be-shown-at-e3
french toast
Veteran
I have an idea...
Im not sure whether this is possible, or whether this has been discussed earlier on this thread...but..
I think ive come up with an idea that would solving these issues ...
1. Bandwith whilst keeping small memory controller 128bit??
2.Getting enough high density ram on board
3.keeping costs sensible
4.saving die area and expensive edram
If we think that a pool of cashe is not going to happen, or wont suffice for the die cost..then let me propose thus...
RAMBUS XDR2 - Has twice the bandwith of even high end GDDR5. and does it using less power....http://www.rambus.com/us/technology/solutions/xdr2/index.html
Could that be used in say.. 1-2gb form (on die?? daughter die ala xenos??) to link the gpu, then also some sort of MEMEXPORT (ala xenos) from GPU to some high desity/cheap Gddr3? maybe in another 2-4gb form??
In that scenario, you would get a high amount of ram, you would get very high bandwith..higher than GDDR5, less power consumption, AND keep the memory controller small at say 128bits wide?? which would enable easy motherboard/chipset shrinkage...
As sony emcorperated some of this technique rather poorley in the ps3, and although was very expensive, managed to pull it off to some extent, i always thought that XDR memory had alot of potential..surely with 6-years gone by xdr would be available in greater density for the same price range..??
Also as GDDR5 is quite expensive, that a smaller amount of pricier XDR mated to a larger pool of cheaper gddr3 would ballance the costs for more ram and enable cost reduction techniques later on in the console life cycle.
What do you guys think...
Im not sure whether this is possible, or whether this has been discussed earlier on this thread...but..
I think ive come up with an idea that would solving these issues ...
1. Bandwith whilst keeping small memory controller 128bit??
2.Getting enough high density ram on board
3.keeping costs sensible
4.saving die area and expensive edram
If we think that a pool of cashe is not going to happen, or wont suffice for the die cost..then let me propose thus...
RAMBUS XDR2 - Has twice the bandwith of even high end GDDR5. and does it using less power....http://www.rambus.com/us/technology/solutions/xdr2/index.html
Could that be used in say.. 1-2gb form (on die?? daughter die ala xenos??) to link the gpu, then also some sort of MEMEXPORT (ala xenos) from GPU to some high desity/cheap Gddr3? maybe in another 2-4gb form??
In that scenario, you would get a high amount of ram, you would get very high bandwith..higher than GDDR5, less power consumption, AND keep the memory controller small at say 128bits wide?? which would enable easy motherboard/chipset shrinkage...
As sony emcorperated some of this technique rather poorley in the ps3, and although was very expensive, managed to pull it off to some extent, i always thought that XDR memory had alot of potential..surely with 6-years gone by xdr would be available in greater density for the same price range..??
Also as GDDR5 is quite expensive, that a smaller amount of pricier XDR mated to a larger pool of cheaper gddr3 would ballance the costs for more ram and enable cost reduction techniques later on in the console life cycle.
What do you guys think...
french toast
Veteran
Sorry my mistake, the memexport is for the shaders right? i meant link the gddr3 via the 128 bit memory controller..and have it unified with the cpu ala xbox 360...
Basically use the XDR as some giant on die cash...
Basically use the XDR as some giant on die cash...
The fact that xdr2 doesn't exist in any functional form makes it difficult to assess the pros and cons. No manufacturer has yet to sample it. It might be the best thing ever but we may never know. If a console manufacturer wants to use it they are going to probably have to do the development as it seems the ram producers would rather rambus fades away.
http://www.computerandvideogames.co...cs-more-powerful-than-xbox-720-claims-source/
PlayStation 4's early technical specifications are looking "more powerful" than those of Microsoft's next-generation Xbox targets, according to PSM3's development sources. The latter matches up with previous reports, and according to Xbox World it's one reason PS4's looking like it might outperform 360's successor in the processing department. With its next console Microsoft is looking to focus on "utility and innovation," the report says.
PlayStation 4's early technical specifications are looking "more powerful" than those of Microsoft's next-generation Xbox targets, according to PSM3's development sources. The latter matches up with previous reports, and according to Xbox World it's one reason PS4's looking like it might outperform 360's successor in the processing department. With its next console Microsoft is looking to focus on "utility and innovation," the report says.
Wow... where have I heard this before? Oh yes! The PS3 vastly outperforms the 360 in terms of power... apparently. I'm amazed at the amount of speculation going on already. Are we at the point now where the (probably completely wrong) rumored contents of one yet-to-be-announced console are going to be compared to the (probably also wrong) rumored contents of a second yet-to-be-announced console? Have we really sunk that low?
I'm going to go play some skyrim on a completely non-rumored fully shipping console. Maybe someone will be kind and shoot me in the knee with an arrow so I can become a guard.
TheWretched
Regular
Not trying to be an ass here, but with your "connections", I don't think you are a neutral party in here to really assess this.
And, to a degree, PS3 is vastly outperforming 360. In terms of CPU, Disc Space, RAM bandwidth (if one ignores the eDRAM, which is severly limited in use), standard HDD etc...
And that's not me saying PS3 is superior or anything, for all intends and purposes they are equally fast... or rather produce comparable results (speed doesn't really matter, then).
Though, if the "source" is real, then... why not? IF PS4 comes later and Sony doesn't fuck up with the GPU again, I might believe it.
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