Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[Proelite]

I am thinking that the rumor is just about the dev kit.

It might be a pc setup with 2 gig of system ram and a 6990 with own vram, which is the fastest AMD solution that they can get right now for development purposes.

This doesn't tell us anything about the final box, so I guess it might be why pretty soon every shitty gaming website is going to have their own version of their next xbox.

 

[Sonic]

X=10, maybe.

Any reason they would not go for unified memory as before?

A GPU having its own separate memory would allow it to fully utilize the bandwidth of its own memory pool without having to share it with multiple CPU cores. If MS can afford it and pull it off, it isn't a bad idea.

 

[hoho]

Split memory pool isn't all that bad. It was bad in PS3 simply because the 256M in each pool was extremely little. 2G in each should be mostly good enough if you don't go over 1080p, especially if the connection between the two is fast enough.

 

[Rangers]

I just realized that we should perhaps here some real details soon on next box.

Based on the timeline of 360, where first concrete specs leaked in very early 04, and even the Wii U which will have about two years between first concrete leaks and final release.

So if Xbox next=late 2014, we should hear something early 2013.

If it's late 2013, we should hear stuff early 012, in other words, soon!

 

[Dominik D]

Split memory pool isn't all that bad. It was bad in PS3 simply because the 256M in each pool was extremely little.

Even 2GiB each will feel very little at some point. Probably sooner than later even.

 

[Rangers]

Even 2GiB each will feel very little at some point. Probably sooner than later even.

So true.

 

[hoho]

I have a stupid question vaguely related to the memory stuff:
do PC games generally doublebuffer all the data in vram also in system memory?

I've yet to see a game that would get >2GB without heavy modding and even then they rarely get >3GB. If from that 30-50% is just a "backup" of the stuff already in vram then the 2+2 won't probably get too tight that soon.

 

[Prophecy2k]

I have a stupid question vaguely related to the memory stuff:
do PC games generally doublebuffer all the data in vram also in system memory?

I've yet to see a game that would get >2GB without heavy modding and even then they rarely get >3GB. If from that 30-50% is just a "backup" of the stuff already in vram then the 2+2 won't probably get too tight that soon.

If both ram pools aren't shared, then i would assume that for a games console you would want 3GB Vram and 1GB system ram over what is suggested in the rumour. But then i guess GDDR5 chip density isn't high enough yet to have >2GB without things becoming too complex and prohibitively expensive.

If they're gunning for 2012 with the nextbox then i guess XDR2 is out of the question? Perhaps Sony could look at a similar or more exotic RAM for their next console.

 

[ERP]

do PC games generally doublebuffer all the data in vram also in system memory?

Some certainly do, on windows under DX you can get a device reset going from fullscreen to minimized or fullscreen to windows and all the textures/vertex buffers etc. have to be recreated.
If they're not available in memory they have to come off disk, which can be a substantial amount of time.
In DX9 there was a concept of a managed resource pool, where DirectX did basically this for you, but I believe it's gone in DX11. In practice all the managed pool did was guarantee that there would be 3 copies of at least some of the resources.

 

[ERP]

French site Xboxygen is rumouring that Microsoft is to make some kind of announcement related to the next Xbox at Las Vegas tech show CES in January.

I'd be surprised if this happened, CES is just not a big gaming event anymore, and hasn't been for over 15 years.

 

[deathkiller]

Some certainly do, on windows under DX you can get a device reset going from fullscreen to minimized or fullscreen to windows and all the textures/vertex buffers etc. have to be recreated.
If they're not available in memory they have to come off disk, which can be a substantial amount of time.
In DX9 there was a concept of a managed resource pool, where DirectX did basically this for you, but I believe it's gone in DX11. In practice all the managed pool did was guarantee that there would be 3 copies of at least some of the resources.

It is a reasonable thing to do in a normal OS. On Android you have to manage yourself the recovery of the OpenGL resources if the context is lost on an interruption (a phone call for example), not very fun (the solution being having a copy on ram or reloading from the memory card making the user wait).

 

[hoho]

So basically one could say that currently even the highest-end games are using far less than 2GB of unique data between video + system memory? If that's so then I'd dare to say that shared 2+2G (or 3+1 as was suggested) on consoles will work for quite a lot longer time than 256+256 did in this generation.

 

[AlNom]

Would that not affect board complexity? And what kind of interconnects would you have to have to be able to have links between both the CPU and GPU and both RAM pools?

I'd be intrigued to know if this can be done

You'd be looking at something similar to how PS3 is currently setup except for the part about Cell having crap capability of reading GDDR3. In this scenario you need to have the memory I/O for each type on both chips.

Or you could have the memory controllers on just the GPU and have the CPU access either memory via the GPU ala Xenos. In which case, you don't have all sorts of crazy wiring from the RAM chips to two different processors on the mobo, just the one. But at that point, you might as well just have a single memory type and equivalent bus width.

I am thinking that the rumor is just about the dev kit.

It's an interesting thought, much like the early PS3 dev kits with dual 6800s. The system is going to be at least two years away, so nothing will be in concrete (or silicon ) for quite a while.

 

[sebbbi]

I have a stupid question vaguely related to the memory stuff:
do PC games generally doublebuffer all the data in vram also in system memory?

Old PC games did this, because in DX9 (and before that) you could lose the ownership of DirectX device (for example user pressing ALT+TAB), and when that happened, all the GPU resources (default pool) had to be recreated. It also supported managed resources, and those did hold a copy of every texture in system memory.

For example in our old DX9 game "Trials 2 Second Edition" we actually reloaded all textures from the HDD whenever the DirectX device was lost. We didn't use managed resources at all, because we wanted the game to run properly on those ATOM netbooks that only had 512 megabytes of RAM (but of course with lowest graphics quality settings).

 

[archangelmorph]

Why not a single unified pool of GDDR5?

Also using DDR for system memory almost renders the idea of shared access to it somewhat useless as your going to be slowing down the GPU like crazy every time it has to hit it...

You'll end up using it for direct GPU access to infrequently read textures/shaders/vertex-data or as a cache for loading data in/out of VRAM for the GPU to crunch...

I reckon if the hardware manufacturers were to go this route (i.e. split, shared-access mem pools) then the 3GB VRAM to 1-2 GB Main memory idea sounds better IMO, provided the CPU-to-VRAM bus provides enough bandwidth to make it usable...

 

[patsu]

IMHO, if they (the platform owners) do it right, the nextgen won't be about # of cores, GPU and memory types anymore. ^_^

 

[liolio]

X=10, maybe.

Any reason they would not go for unified memory as before?

X=10 so
O=1
B=14

going further:
XBOX=10x14x1x10=1400

Numerology teaches us that 1400=5

Five in numerology:

LIFE PATH 5

The key to your personality is freedom. You love travel, adventure, variety and meeting new people. You posses the curiosity of a cat, and you long to experience all of life. You love to be involved in several things at the same time, as long as you are not tied down to any one area.
You like change, new things and new horizons. You can make friends easily, and your personality is upbeat and often inspiring, attracting people form all walks of life.

So now clear the 360 was already about live, project ten is named ten because it's 5x2 to maximize to power of the five number. Ten will be a really a social thing, fresh but cool as hell.
That's how I get it.

Spoiler

Sorry for the wtf moment

EDIT
I built a stronger convinction as the XBOX 360 is also 5:
5(from xbox)+3+6=14=5
Xbox ten is twice a 360, it's clear now.

 

[AlNom]

lol

 

[Rodéric]

 

[Prophecy2k]

X=10 so
O=1
B=14

going further:
XBOX=10x14x1x10=1400

Numerology teaches us that 1400=5

Five in numerology:
So now clear the 360 was already about live, project ten is named ten because it's 5x2 to maximize to power of the five number. Ten will be a really a social thing, fresh but cool as hell.
That's how I get it.

Spoiler

Sorry for the wtf moment

EDIT
I built a stronger convinction as the XBOX 360 is also 5:
5(from xbox)+3+6=14=5
Xbox ten is twice a 360, it's clear now.

Mind is now blown