Looking at the past through rose-tinted lenses, maybe? The original TMNT was hardly a masterpiece of well-animated artistry.
WiiGeePeeYou (Hollywood) what IS it ?
- Thread starter Megadrive1988
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tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Yes but the first TMNT was on the NES right? You dont expect a nes game to look anything good. But I do expect that out of modern day hardware.
DeadlyNinja
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This is based on the original R rated comic, not the original toon. The new movie itself will be rated PG, but it's definitely darker than any of the previous incarnations.
I hope to god that Ubi Soft won't go their usual crappy port route...
Even worse since the hi res would indicate a 360 or ps3 version.
BTW, I think the game is based on the new CG animated movie.
Will the ps2 be supporting that res? That's pretty much 720p there.
Oh yes it was. Remember the weird overworld of the city, with the steamrollers that would squish you? Otherwise it was a side scroller.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
I dont remember that. Im only 20 years old (guess im one of the younger members here?) so the NES was before my time. My gaming days kinda started when I got my snes and when we got our first pc in 1998.
Matt of IGN puts the smack down
http://wii.ign.com/mail/
A lot of people are still over analyzing the graphic capabilities of Wii. The basic consensus is that Wii is just a little more powerful than the original Xbox. However, the original Xbox had features like specular highlighting and bump mapping.
Can the Wii do these? Super Mario Galaxy seems to indicate yes, as where all the current games don't feature specular or bump-mapping.
Matt responds: Wii can do specular highlighting and bump-mapping, sure. Both of these graphical feats were accomplished on GameCube - and with launch titles like Rogue Squadron. If, on the other hand, you're asking whether Wii can do normal mapping and other advanced texture filtering, there is no way to say for sure just yet. The developer consensus - at least based on every software house I've spoken with - is no. Wii is more powerful than GameCube, yes, and in many ways it's more powerful than Xbox, too. But not everything about it is immediately superior to Microsoft's old hardware. Xbox had built-in shaders and Wii does not. To really be blunt, it is basically an overclocked GameCube with more RAM. If you don't want to hear that, I'm sorry, bit it's the truth. There are some people who believe that the architecture is capable of normal mapping due in large to the increased CPU speeds and greater RAM, but I personally don't think we'll see many games on Wii that sport the graphical effect. I'd love to be wrong, but at this point in time I've seen no indication otherwise. Super Mario Galaxy has some brilliant effects in place, particularly for textures and particles, but I don't see any full-scene normal mappin
http://wii.ign.com/mail/
A lot of people are still over analyzing the graphic capabilities of Wii. The basic consensus is that Wii is just a little more powerful than the original Xbox. However, the original Xbox had features like specular highlighting and bump mapping.
Can the Wii do these? Super Mario Galaxy seems to indicate yes, as where all the current games don't feature specular or bump-mapping.
Matt responds: Wii can do specular highlighting and bump-mapping, sure. Both of these graphical feats were accomplished on GameCube - and with launch titles like Rogue Squadron. If, on the other hand, you're asking whether Wii can do normal mapping and other advanced texture filtering, there is no way to say for sure just yet. The developer consensus - at least based on every software house I've spoken with - is no. Wii is more powerful than GameCube, yes, and in many ways it's more powerful than Xbox, too. But not everything about it is immediately superior to Microsoft's old hardware. Xbox had built-in shaders and Wii does not. To really be blunt, it is basically an overclocked GameCube with more RAM. If you don't want to hear that, I'm sorry, bit it's the truth. There are some people who believe that the architecture is capable of normal mapping due in large to the increased CPU speeds and greater RAM, but I personally don't think we'll see many games on Wii that sport the graphical effect. I'd love to be wrong, but at this point in time I've seen no indication otherwise. Super Mario Galaxy has some brilliant effects in place, particularly for textures and particles, but I don't see any full-scene normal mappin
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Well I think we've seen that one coming... Still wonder why the chips are atleast 2 times the size they need to be for overclocked GC's though. He only talkes about normal mapping but I would rather hear what Wii is capable of, maybe in terms of poly pushing because than atleast we would get a idea of what kind of gfx you can expect.
If by overclock, they mean, it do exactely the same thing just x times a fast it can be true, in the case of 3x it would take near twice the transistores from logic to get a new TnL/pixel... engines.
Anyway they can use that to a lot of things that arent comparable to others GPU (eg DSPs for shadowing or others HW interesting features that there isnt in any GPU), or things that arent gfx related at all (physics, networking, controller...).
Anyway it is Matt......
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In a word: TEV
http://wii.ign.com/mail/
A lot of people are still over analyzing the graphic capabilities of Wii. The basic consensus is that Wii is just a little more powerful than the original Xbox. However, the original Xbox had features like specular highlighting and bump mapping.
Can the Wii do these? Super Mario Galaxy seems to indicate yes, as where all the current games don't feature specular or bump-mapping.
Matt responds: Wii can do specular highlighting and bump-mapping, sure. Both of these graphical feats were accomplished on GameCube - and with launch titles like Rogue Squadron. If, on the other hand, you're asking whether Wii can do normal mapping and other advanced texture filtering, there is no way to say for sure just yet. The developer consensus - at least based on every software house I've spoken with - is no. Wii is more powerful than GameCube, yes, and in many ways it's more powerful than Xbox, too. But not everything about it is immediately superior to Microsoft's old hardware. Xbox had built-in shaders and Wii does not. To really be blunt, it is basically an overclocked GameCube with more RAM. If you don't want to hear that, I'm sorry, bit it's the truth. There are some people who believe that the architecture is capable of normal mapping due in large to the increased CPU speeds and greater RAM, but I personally don't think we'll see many games on Wii that sport the graphical effect. I'd love to be wrong, but at this point in time I've seen no indication otherwise. Super Mario Galaxy has some brilliant effects in place, particularly for textures and particles, but I don't see any full-scene normal mappin
It's might not be as immediately accessible as the shader hardware of other platforms, but that's purely down to the API. Compared similar hardware from that time it's actually more powerful in many ways.
A lot of xbox "power" was down to developers being familiar with the DX API from PeeCee, not about the hardware being capable of doing more.
Heh. Well I wouldn't say the devs skimped on trying to max out Cube. It never did do effects like Xbox did in some titles. Not even close to what I see in Far Cry Instincts, say. I own both machines and like 'em both, but Xbox definitely seemed to really outgun it in the end. There are many examples of such games IMO.
I'm still waiting for the magic, unreleased title screens that show a noticeably superior GPU compared to Xbox, but it's not happening and I'm doubtful we really will see any such game. But if we do, I'll be very happy indeed. It really looks unlikely at this point.
edit: (insert obligatory "yes I own Rogue Leader, Rebel Strike, F-Zero GX, and RE4" comment)
I'm still waiting for the magic, unreleased title screens that show a noticeably superior GPU compared to Xbox, but it's not happening and I'm doubtful we really will see any such game. But if we do, I'll be very happy indeed. It really looks unlikely at this point.
edit: (insert obligatory "yes I own Rogue Leader, Rebel Strike, F-Zero GX, and RE4" comment)
That article sounds to me like the layman logic of 'it hasn't got shaders, so can't do normal mapping.' You could produce per-pixel normal-mapped lighting on DX7 hardware using proper jiggery pokery. If the Wii can render multiple passes, it can do normal mapping, even if using the CPU to calculate lighting. The question isn't one of whether the hardware has it as a hardware feature, but whether the hardware has enough speed and versatility that the develops can use it effectively.
It should be apparent to all now, that the vast majority of developers (probably something like 99%) don't have time or resources to sit around playing with the hardware, experimenting and seeing what's possible.
They want effects that are very easy to just plug in and get going.
That's why a combination of relatively strong hardware and a very well known and a well supported API was/is such a technical success with the two xboxes.
I just think it is a shame that less well know, new hardware doesn't get the chance, because developers deem it not worth the effort for the ~ 5 years a console is on the marked.
Nintendo and Sonys consistency in hardware design/design philosophy during the last an current gen. could help on the this though.
They want effects that are very easy to just plug in and get going.
That's why a combination of relatively strong hardware and a very well known and a well supported API was/is such a technical success with the two xboxes.
I just think it is a shame that less well know, new hardware doesn't get the chance, because developers deem it not worth the effort for the ~ 5 years a console is on the marked.
Nintendo and Sonys consistency in hardware design/design philosophy during the last an current gen. could help on the this though.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
How do you mean that? psx/n64, gc/ps2/xbox and probably ps3 and x360 will be pushed to their max. Or did I misunderstand you post?
Maybe the choice of nintendo not to focus on specs will be their downfall in a sort of way? Not that it will make the Wii a flop but in the sense of there is a decent amount of power in the Wii but because it will take some time and effort to get it out of the machine, plus that it will never look like ps3/x360 and Nintendo doesnt focus on the gfx alot of devs wont take alot of effort to create a good looking game. I really think nintendo should put some effort into having 3rd party devs creating good looking games. Sure it wont become ps3/x360 gfx but seeing most games looking even worse than ps2 games is just wrong.
I don't think either N64 or PS2 was ever pushed anywhere near their technical limit. 5 years isn't a very long time to explore a completely new architecture. Especially when most developers are only going to ship 1 - 3 games during the lifetime of the console.
PSX had the libraries to help, and developers was only allowed access to the hardware in the last year or so, so even that had some juice left, I recon.
Saturn, while packing a lot of potential power, sort of was marked by the panic before closing time design of the architecture.
Parts of it was brilliant and other parts felt like they were thrown in with a shovel. Both making it hard to develop for, and not exactly enticing or inspiring enthusiasm in the programmer either.
GC was probably the least utilized console of the last gen.
Imagine a developer having the choice between the safe and comfy DX API and the xbox hardware, or the on paper less impressive GC, where they have to first wrap their heads around the TEV to do impressive effects.
Which console do you think the timepressed developer is going to do the impressive effects on?
I completely agree. Nintendo has to stop downplaying the technical side so much.
It only inspires heavy use of Renderware and old GC UR engine ports. If they ever want to make people use the TEV they have gradually force and entice them.
On the other hand 95% of how good a game looks comes down to how good the art is. Even a c64 game can look smashing with the right art approach.
That said, even brilliant artists tire of using the same old tools for too long...
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The problem of Nintendo is that the talented guys able to master the TEV have moved to next gen. Which team will make the stand out game from a 3rd party point of view ?? Silicon Knight, Factor 5, Rare, Ubi Soft Montreal, etc are too busy with the ps3/X360
There are still a few left. Eighting for example, and a few guys from Capcom Studio 4. Maybe Amusement Vision and Treasure. But if the 1st and 2nd party studios exploit the capabilities, 3rd parties will have to follow, or their games will look laughable. And Retro, EAD and NST will try to do whatever possible on the platform I think...
I called matt on his Mailbag bs and boy do the tards at the forum come out of the wood work when you do. Suffice to say convincing him or others like him that Wii is anything more than GC 1.5 or that normal mapping is possible is downright an exercise in futlity. Though I will say it's a good laugh to get a reaction from him and be told I don't know what I'm talking about when that's the point I was making about him.
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