The problem with broken 360 explained!

M

McFly

Veteran
They didn't to remove the heat pad/paste protector foil!

http://www.nexgam.de/forum/thread.php?threadid=38386 (German)

They opened an old and a new 360. Two that have died like so many. Both had the protection foil not removed on the GPU! While the foil itself tranfers heat, it of course doesn't do it as effective as the paste, so without much luck the 360 will die in a few days and with even less luck the foil will tranfer the heat good enough that your box dies after the warranty!

Months of problems and it needs an overclocker to find the source of it. Good I haven't got a 360 till now. They contacted MS, so let's hope MS actually listens and future boxes will not see this problems.

Fredi
 
If true, and a problem with them all as two different manufacturing dates would suggest, it means every console is basically a breakdown waiting to happen. Ouch.

Good thing MS reportedly has some great customer service.
 
hadareud said:
Oh no, not here as well :LOL:
Click to expand...

In other words ... you just came here to post about it and realised that you came too late. :D

Anyway, let's see how this one turns out, it could be something huge or just some forum overreaction/false conlusion.

Fredi
 
Yeah, MS replaces everything for free while it's under warranty. I don't see how anyone can be totally upset.
 
Looks to me like a shim. The GPU and daughter die can't be guaranteed to be in the same plane, so putting one heat sink on both of them could possibly damage one or the other. The foil (which is good at conducting heat, better than thermal paste) creates a flat surface for the heat sink to contact, then contacts both dies.
 
McFly said:
In other words ... you just came here to post about it and realised that you came too late. :D
Click to expand...

;)

m1nd_x said:
Yeah, MS replaces everything for free while it's under warranty. I don't see how anyone can be totally upset.
Click to expand...

Well, the point of this "discovery" is that it affects every 360(or at least also the consoles with new manufacturing dates), thus suggesting that MS either not discovered this or is knowingly not doing anything about it. Which is hard to believe to say at the least.

Especially considering that it is not only Microsoft we're talking about, but also manufacturers like Flextronics etc.
 
OtakingGX said:
Looks to me like a shim. The GPU and daughter die can't be guaranteed to be in the same plane, so putting one heat sink on both of them could possibly damage one or the other. The foil (which is good at conducting heat, better than thermal paste) creates a flat surface for the heat sink to contact, then contacts both dies.
Click to expand...

Hmmm ... interesting. But wouldn't there be a possible heat transfer problem between the foil surface and the heatsink surface if you don't use any termal paste?

Fredi
 
OtakingGX said:
Looks to me like a shim.
Click to expand...
It's obviously not a shim... :p It's a heat-conducting tape of some kind, with what looks like a metal foil on top that's supposed to be removed before use. Since it seems to be metal, I don't think the heat conduction would be significantly impacted by this mistake, it'd be worse if it was waxed paper or maybe plastic. In any case, heat is literally pouring out the back of my 360, so if there's tape over the GPU chips then I don't even dare to think of how hot the air coming out the back ought to be. :)
 
I can't read German, but did removing the foil solve the probem?

Hmmm ... interesting. But wouldn't there be a possible heat transfer problem between the foil surface and the heatsink surface if you don't use any termal paste?
Click to expand...

Not really. Thermal paste didn't come into fashion until later. Prior to that thermal tape was used. The early socket370 chips didn't use thermal paste only thermal tape. Since the GPU in Xbox360 only consumes 25-30 watts, this shouldn't be a significant issue.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This seems like a proper place to ask this question. When should we expect to see improved chips that don't run into these kinds of problems as much? I will probably be jumping on the X360 bandwagon late this year or early next and I hope to buy one that doesn't run into as much heat issues.
 
many laptop manufacturers have used that foil between the heatsink and chip setup for years. thats not a design flaw or mistake.
 
Gremmie said:
This seems like a proper place to ask this question. When should we expect to see improved chips that don't run into these kinds of problems as much?
Click to expand...
Any answer you'll get here is only going to be speculation. Those in the know - and that'll be certain higher-ups at MS, IBM and possibly ATi/NEC - will be guarding such information very closely - they're valuable trade secrets after all.

I will probably be jumping on the X360 bandwagon late this year or early next and I hope to buy one that doesn't run into as much heat issues.
Click to expand...
Barring the odd anecdotal "evidence", I don't think there's any significant heat issues with the 360 as it is. Other than the cooling fans being two noisy sons of bitches that is, but that's a rather different issue.
 
i suppose that could fit what happened to mine....

After unplugging it and leaving it for a while it would turn on fine, but then after 30 secs to a minute the screen would go chequered and the console would lock out sending a screech through the speakers. upon reboot it would flash up a hardware failure (3 red lights)...


and yet time after time if you left it for a while it would work for those 30-60 seconds..... perhaps because the gpu had time to cool down.

Seems a bit simple though; i'd be suprised if it was such a basic problem!
 
Guden Oden said:
Barring the odd anecdotal "evidence", I don't think there's any significant heat issues with the 360 as it is. Other than the cooling fans being two noisy sons of bitches that is, but that's a rather different issue.
Click to expand...

The cooling fans on mine are actually relatively quiet (compared to a PC and the original Xbox). The DVD drive on the other hand is just unbelievably loud, really bad. They should have spent a few quid more on that drive. Ah well.
 
...which brought an idea to my mind!
Why don't they use the dvd rotation to make a cooling fan and put the chips under the dvd drive where the fan powered by the drive spindle would keep them cool.
...or maybe it's not that good idea after all, as that would require the disc rotating all the time.
 
rabidrabbit said:
...which brought an idea to my mind!
Why don't they use the dvd rotation to make a cooling fan and put the chips under the dvd drive where the fan powered by the drive spindle would keep them cool.
...or maybe it's not that good idea after all, as that would require the disc rotating all the time.
Click to expand...

Well the drive needs to be quite trouble-free, and attaching a fan to it WILL mess it up way before it would without it. That and i think tray-loading drives are sealed, you would need a totally new design.

bad idea...
 
mine was the same - fans not really a significant noise issue... the drive spinning up on the other hand was very noisey
 
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