Razorback eDonkey File-Sharing Server Shut Down

[Diplo]

Joint raids by police in Belgium and Switzerland have shut down a popular file-sharing server.

The Razorback2 server was part of the Edonkey file-sharing network and was used by a third of the system's users.

The server held an index of 170 million pirated files, said the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA).

In the raids, the server's Swiss owner was arrested and the Razorback2 machines were seized from a Brussels-based hosting firm - BBC News

Whether you agree with file-sharing or not this seems a worrying development to me. The fact that you can be arrested and have your server shut-down for simply indexing pirate material is quite scary. Let's be clear - Razorback simply indexed files and had no knowledge of whether the files were legal or illegal. They did not host a single illegal file.

So how long before Google is shutdown? After all, Google must also index some illegal files. When are the heavies going to arrest Larry Page and confiscate all his equipment?

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

This line says it all.
The RIAA aren't all that popular among consumers and until they change their tune piracy will be ongoing.

The best that any company or business can hope to do in relation to piracy is to take away as many reasons for piracy in the first place.
Considering I'm going to end up doing some form of development I wouldn't like people pirating my software, however I wont go around suing people even if I could.
Understanding is the key to bringing piracy down.

Abolishing piracy is like trying to abolish murder. We tried the death penalty, it didn't work. We tried psychiatrists, it didn't work.
We even tried mixtures of things, it still didn't abolish murder.

[...]said the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA).

 

[epicstruggle]

Let's be clear - Razorback simply indexed files and had no knowledge of whether the files were legal or illegal.

I would be shocked if more than .01% of the files indexed by them were legal. Lets hope that PB is next. (one can hope anyways.)

epic

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

This is just "whack-a-mole". I bet most users didn't even notice as their clients just hopped onto the next server. Emule/Edonkey has had serverless mode Kademelia for quite a while now - you could kill every server and it would make no difference. P2P has been forced to evolve to a decentralised, distributed system with no single point of failure by the way the media cartels have tried to stamp on this technology instead of embracing it as a new distribution channel. Encryption, anonymity and obfuscation are on their way too

 

[Hector]

Well, in some countries the activity of sharing is legal as long as there is no lucrative intention on it. The RazorBack administrator was beign payed to display advertisement in the webpage and in the server wellcome message. Si it's possible to say there was a lucrative intention.

Btw, police also said one of the reasons was to stop sharing of illegal contents of minors (dunno if I wrote it correctly), which is a nonsense, as this people just switch to another server and that's all. It's clear they don't know how the edonkey network works. And of course they took the easy way, as it would be far more difficult to track down the people sharing illegal contents.

 

[Moloch]

good riddance.

 

[Diplo]

I would be shocked if more than .01% of the files indexed by them were legal. Lets hope that PB is next. (one can hope anyways.)

The percentage is irrelevant. You are criminalising the collation of information. This principle could effect every type of public indexing service - be it file-sharing, search engines or even hyperlinks. It's not hyperbole to suggest this could seriously end the free sharing of information on the internet. Only this week another similar story occurred:

Google is in hot water over their Image Search function - a Los Angeles District Judge has ruled that is may violate US copyright law.

The adult website Perfect 10 took the search giant to court because Google Image Search was indexing their content. Judge A. Howard Matz ruled that Google potentially infringes copyright law "by creating and displaying thumbnail copies of its photographs".

The original lawsuit was filed in November 2004 but in August 2005, Perfect 10 asked for an injunction to block Google from caching over 3,000 Perfect 10 photos and making them viewable outside the adult website.

We've seen similair cases aimed at UseNet, another service where possibly illegal files might be stored. How long before companies decide that they cannot afford to run these services anymore? So we see search engines disappear, or censoring content. We see UseNet become a shell of itself. We see file-sharing consigned to history (despite the fact that torrents etc. are the most logical way for disseminating files). How long before someone sues Google for having links to warez sites in it's index? Or for some people using Google mail to store illegal files? Once the precedent is made the floodgates will open to greedy lawyers and the internet, as we know it, becomes history.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Jeeze, considering how old and unused Edonkey is this raid is kind of scary in a stupid way to me.

Shows me they're about a year and a half behind the current scene.

 

[dskneo]

Jeeze, considering how old and unused Edonkey is this raid is kind of scary in a stupid way to me.

Shows me they're about a year and a half behind the current scene.

im a bit off..... whats the current scene? bittorrent?

 

[digitalwanderer]

im a bit off..... whats the current scene? bittorrent?

Yup, without a doubt.

The trackerless stuff is picking up, but most registration sites are still doing it by tracker to better control the access.

 

[Moloch]

Yup, without a doubt.

The trackerless stuff is picking up, but most registration sites are still doing it by tracker to better control the access.

I use bitsoup
I do use sites you don't need to register though for tv-shows though.

 

[digitalwanderer]

I do use sites you don't need to register though for tv-shows though.

I don't name sites on this site as I like not being banned here, but I use a mix too; a few registered sites that are known for having everything first and insane download speeds for power users (which I am at both my fave registered places), and a couple of very popular daily sites that you don't need to register for stuff.

The unregistered sites are nice because you don't have to worry about your ratio as much...

Anime is of course a whole 'nother subject, although there is some overlap. (Mini gets 'em before Baka sometimes...it just depends)

 

[Diplo]

Please, let's not talk about illegal downloads, just the matters raised by this action and it's implications. Thanks

 

[Guden Oden]

The fact that you can be arrested and have your server shut-down for simply indexing pirate material is quite scary.

Well, um, it's not as if I've never downloaded copyrighted material over bittorrent (only three entire seasons of 24, first five seasons of bewitched, every damn episode there is of Enterprise (except the four last ones), first four or five seasons of Sopranos, and the full version of Doom3 - which I subsequently purchased once it was available in stores), but it is very arguable that hosting a server that indexes distributed pirated content is intentionally aiding and abetting copyright violation. It's not as if it's some kind of secret that filesharing is mainly consisting of pirating various materials, be it games, TV shows, music or movies. It's not recipes or cross-stitching patterns that are being traded here...

I don't think the "slippery slope" argument is applicable here. "He couldn't know wether the files were illegal or not" isn't a valid excuse; when the guy has enough brains to run a server like that, he's got enough brains to be able to realize that at least a substantial amount of the files indexed ARE going to be pirated. Heck, just looking at the file names will tell anyone that much.

Google etc may index pirated files too, but they don't do it with the intent of easing their mass distribution across the five continents of the world!

 

[Diplo]

"He couldn't know wether the files were illegal or not" isn't a valid excuse; when the guy has enough brains to run a server like that, he's got enough brains to be able to realize that at least a substantial amount of the files indexed ARE going to be pirated.

EDonkey servers merely index what people are sharing. If people share mostly illegal files then that is where the problem lies and the people who should be prosecuted are the people sharing the illegal files. Shifting the blame to the servers themselves creates a very nasty precedent. Nearly any automated indexing service is going to index illegal files. At where percentage do you suddenly draw the line? You are merely shifting the responsibility in a way that creates a very worrying trend.

If you agree with this logic, that the people who run the servers are responsible, then how long before UseNet is closed down? After all, a very large percentage of binary newsgroups carry illegal content. Should ISPs have their offices raided and the directors arrested? Using the same argument, how long before the makers of bit-torrent find themselves in jail? After all, they must know that their software is used for mainly downloading illegal files? So, by your logic, they should be held responsible.

Hell, why don't we just give the music and film companies the power to arrest who they want? They can effectively bribe (donate) enough money to politicians to get them to pass the laws they want already. Let's go the whole way and give them the legal power to arrest every person who copies a track to their iPod (which will soon be deemed illegal if they get their way). No slippery slope? Riiight.

 

[Guden Oden]

You're arguing a lost cause Diplo, and arguing against the wrong 'adversary'. I'm not cheering on the movie and record studios in their crusade against filesharing, I'm just pointing out that the faux excuse of ignorance that piracy isn't the server owner's concern or fault is exactly that, when the server owner is fully and well aware that piracy is taking place through the service he's facilitating, and that piracy is in fact the main purpose of said server!

And like I also already said, that other indexing servers are also going to index pirated files, because google or usenet doesn't exist almost solely in order to distribute these materials.

This isn't setting any dangerous prescident at all. It's IMPOSSIBLE to believe this swiss guy was completely oblivious and unaware to the undoubtedly massive amounts of pirated files that were being offered through the service he was providing. I've no idea how edonkey networks work, but bittorrent sites are often OFTEN arranged with separate forums or areas for things like movies, manga, anime, TV shows (with sub-areas for different popular series), porn (gay, lesb and str8 sorted separately), music (again, sub-areas for like, pop, rock, country, heavy metal, rap etc). Please try and explain how this is not directly facilitating illegal file sharing...

If you borrow your car to someone you KNOW is going to rob a bank and use it as the getaway vehicle, well, how do you think the court is going to look upon that afterwards?


Do I think the studios ought to have a carte blanche to do whatever they like to curb piracy? No, of course not, that's not at all what I've been saying. On the other hand, giving a carte blanche to file sharing index server owners is probably going to be nearly as bad.

 

[Diplo]

So you agree with all filesharing networks being closed down then? Because all of them index large quantities of illegal files and therefore, using your logic, they should be shut down. That seems a rather hypocritical stance to take given that you use them yourself!

 

[Altcon]

I have two diinct feelings about this:
GREAT!!
Awfull....
Great because i don't think piracy is the answer to anything, anyone who's ever coded even the simplest usefull app would probably like to get paid. And if they're up to snuff they will.

Awfull, because so much crappy code is just sent into the world that maybe piracy keeps the competition on its toes. I also don't believe there is a way to end piracy...so this is another drop in an endless bucket.

In the last couple of months there's been a rise of acttivity from BSA's side, I see them directly contacting many small companies and informing of upcoming inspections. What this has brought is a wave of software purchase (mainly MS products), from those who tried to save on initial expenses.
Despite my dislike to scare tactics I find this course of action positive, it makes telling clients that we recommend they BUY their software easier and more reliable. I also do believe that if you don't want to buy there are tons of "good enough" free (open source too) apps on the net.
I do belive the RIAA need a new stance, and that the big labels could probably cash in on this in a smart way instead of batteling windmills and their consumers.

 

[Moloch]

I don't name sites on this site as I like not being banned here, but I use a mix too; a few registered sites that are known for having everything first and insane download speeds for power users (which I am at both my fave registered places), and a couple of very popular daily sites that you don't need to register for stuff.

The unregistered sites are nice because you don't have to worry about your ratio as much...

Anime is of course a whole 'nother subject, although there is some overlap. (Mini gets 'em before Baka sometimes...it just depends)

I wont be banned.
I'm not linking to copyright material or anything.
By the same logic perhaps saying you use edonkey should get you banned?
Cuz ya know.. edonkey provides the mean to access copyrighted matieral...
Btw there are a few bitsoups

Not worrying about your ratio on unregistered sites?
You're a naughty boy aren't you?
I hope you never complain about the seeder:leecher ratios.

 

[DudeMiester]

What this has brought is a wave of software purchase (mainly MS products), from those who tried to save on initial expenses.

Tell that to my employer! HA HA! Then again, I think some of our software is legal, but only by accident. Still, it makes me sick. This is a professional business, so act professional! If the police came a-knocking, it would probably be for the better.