R590 - Will we see this beast?

[pjbliverpool]

So if it hits, what are we expecting for the R590?

My guess/hope would be 700Mhz core speed at 2Ghz memory. I may be way off on the mem though as im not sure whats expected of GDDR4. I have heard 2.4Ghz straight out of the gate but that seems too optimistic to me.

Also, X1950XTX would seem like a reasonable name to me.

 

[_xxx_]

Also, X1950XTX would seem like a reasonable name to me.

No, a reasonable name would be simpler. But they'll do it nonetheless, so what the hell.

 

[Blazkowicz]

what if it's only for low cost, then you'd have a X1900XL, cheaper and slower
it would replace the R520, so that X1900XTX can still be sold at its horrendous price.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

With GDDR4 memory .. I can't see it selling cheaper or being slower than the X1900XTX. I think it'll be faster than the X1900XTX since it'll need to compete with the G71.

US

 

[ondaedg]

I thought this forum disliked IHVs releasing new cards every three months. Suddenly there is a change in opinion on this? OR does it depend on which IHV is doing it?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Well it's not up to us is it.

If it were .. i'd say yay .. because all the cards are great .. and as long as the prices stay reasonable. ($500).

Anyways . .that's my take.

Also since DX10(or D3D10 for the perfectionist) is about to be released .. there'll still be the IHV in the end that say "We had the fastest DX9 gen card out." as bragging rights.

US

 

[Blazkowicz]

With GDDR4 memory .. I can't see it selling cheaper or being slower than the X1900XTX. I think it'll be faster than the X1900XTX since it'll need to compete with the G71.

US

I was joking a bit.
But I could actually be right, R590 would be like the X800XL, and the R580 would be the one to get GDDR4 and slightly increased core clock to compete against the G71. (ATI could try to use proper cooling this time..)
just my pet theory. for now they're just developing the low end 80nm stuff, anyone know if it may run fast? 110nm wasn't great for ATI (no X700XT)

 

[neliz]

Hmm.. I thought the'inq allready reported ati's final tapeout of 80nm products last november..

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Problem is TheInq spew alot of crap .. so I tend to not read it much.

US

 

[neliz]

but on this "general" things, they're mostly right.. they can't tell you the number of pipelines but in general, that information is okay (at least their r520 and r580 tapeout dates were spot on.)

 

[Geo]

I'm guessing we will see it, tho timing is not necessarily pre-R600. It might be, but I don't think it's necessarily a requirement. 80nm is a cost saving feature of its own, and R580 is a big chip. If they are going to keep X19xx around for awhile to fill that super-mid spot after R6xx release it makes sense to go ahead and do it.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

but on this "general" things, they're mostly right.. they can't tell you the number of pipelines but in general, that information is okay (at least their r520 and r580 tapeout dates were spot on.)

But have TheInq released any dates for the R590?

US

 

[SugarCoat]

I'm guessing we will see it, tho timing is not necessarily pre-R600. It might be, but I don't think it's necessarily a requirement. 80nm is a cost saving feature of its own, and R580 is a big chip. If they are going to keep X19xx around for awhile to fill that super-mid spot after R6xx release it makes sense to go ahead and do it.

when was the last time they kept 2 high end products from different tiers in production at the same time? R360?

I dont think it makes too much sense from a cost perspective unless making mid-high end R6XX based products are infact more expensive yet perform close enough to an R590 to warrent such a plan.

To be honost though with no on-board HDCP support or DX10 i think that gives little production value or sense to producing R590s with R6XX. No self respecting OEM would purchase them once vista launches.

 

[Geo]

To be honost though with no on-board HDCP support or DX10 i think that gives little production value or sense to producing R590s with R6XX. No self respecting OEM would purchase them once vista launches.

Did you see the quote from Godfrey I put up in HTPC? They are expecting HDCP skus from "mid-year". A new sku by definition means a new opportunity to put HDCP on it, since apparently the gpu itself supports it.

X800xl was still in production while X850XT, right? Wouldn't that be a better comparison?

Edit: In fact, I'd say what you're pointing at is more supportive rather than less, of a new X19xx sku at whatever point in time you think it might happen. So maybe it's a three-fer --HDCP, GDDR4, 80nm.

 

[Radeon600]

Why there should be a need for X1950XTX?

Is the 7900GTX a high-flyer?, please explain then.....

 

[SugarCoat]

Did you see the quote from Godfrey I put up in HTPC? They are expecting HDCP skus from "mid-year". A new sku by definition means a new opportunity to put HDCP on it, since apparently the gpu itself supports it.

X800xl was still in production while X850XT, right? Wouldn't that be a better comparison?

I'm pretty sure R480 and R420 cores discontinued once all SM3.0 parts had started production. From my understanding, from almost mid year 05 on cards such as the ones you listed had been using stockpiled cores. Which caused products like the GTO2 to appear with fully functioning R480s. There was no shortage of cores, ATI could of shut down production and run with current supply for quite awhile. And you want to sell them one way or another. Point being i think its been a long time since we have seen 2 high end cores from different tiers in production at the same time.

And why add native HDCP to a refresh of a refresh? Dont you think that would really upset people that purchased any of the current X1900s if later X1900s magically got support? Might be better for ATI to simply disregard it completely.

 

[Geo]

And why add native HDCP to a refresh of a refresh? Dont you think that would really upset people that purchased any of the current X1900s if later X1900s magically got support? Might be better for ATI to simply disregaurd it completely.

Because you like selling cards? And you'll sell fewer of them without HDCP the closer you get to Vista. I wouldn't necessarily advise a HDCP-only refresh, but if you were thinking of 80nm and GDDR4 anyway, which the roadmap suggests. . .

There's also the point that it's clear as mud right now what ships first, Vista or R600, and by how much. Do they feel pretty strongly they don't want R600 on the street until Vista is or nearly is available? Or are they happy to have it out there as soon as R600 is ready to go? A year ago we seemed quite worried about performance for a unified architecture without API support --now we seem to take it for granted it'd be okay. I's confuddled on that point.

 

[SugarCoat]

Because you like selling cards? And you'll sell fewer of them without HDCP the closer you get to Vista. I wouldn't necessarily advise a HDCP-only refresh, but if you were thinking of 80nm and GDDR4 anyway, which the roadmap suggests. . .

There's also the point that it's clear as mud right now what ships first, Vista or R600, and by how much. Do they feel pretty strongly they don't want R600 on the street until Vista is or nearly is available? Or are they happy to have it out there as soon as R600 is ready to go? A year ago we seemed quite worried about performance for a unified architecture without API support --now we seem to take it for granted it'd be okay. I's confuddled on that point.

And R590 and R600 wont co-exist, just wouldnt make sense. OEMs will not purchase R590s once R6XXs launch. Now if you were talking about just the R590 as a refresh, to add exclusive support for HDCP would make ATI the target of harassment for many. Honostly, there is no good reason not to add it to cards starting as far back as the R4XX, then to continue skipping over it for the R520 and R580 only to add it in to the R590? Who wouldnt be upset? It doesnt matter if you needed it or not, its something you dont have on your new $400, $500, $600 card, and that might be something many will be upset at. To cause as little waves about it as possible would mean you dont start it until the R6xx boards. An entirely new product.

I'm not convinced we will even see GDDR4 on ATIs products until R6XX. GDDR3 production is still the main focus for samsung, so i question how available GDDR4
is. I have seen no such roadmap stating otherise, and am completely under the impression that the R590 is nothing more then a optional cost saving measure, not a super clocked R580. Think some people are getting a little carried away. If ATI cared so much about being competitive and the best at all costs, they wouldnt be using 1.1ns/1.2ns ram well below its rated speeds to save on heat and power. What is being discussed here is a contradiction of that entirely.

 

[booomups]

what are ati s statements about this?

 

[Sunrise]

when was the last time they kept 2 high end products from different tiers in production at the same time? R360?

I dont think it makes too much sense from a cost perspective unless making mid-high end R6XX based products are infact more expensive yet perform close enough to an R590 to warrent such a plan.

There wasn´t any "last time", since process technology didn´t allow for it to happen. To reduce costs and improve margins, while keeping performance at least on par, they really need(ed) a half-node with all options (Low-K) of it´s bigger brother. An optical shrink based on 90nm to 80nm will surely take some time, since libraries need to be adjusted and you have to take account of the time for another tapeout. Costs aren´t really relevant in that equation if they want to continue with R580, because when there is enough volume (cost-cutting measures could easily be taken) those starting investments really do seem like nothing at all.

R600 is some ways off, i´m afraid.