Is this the truth about Blu-ray Drives?

Blu-ray news

Some blu-ray news headed your way...

Feb 6, 2006 - Primera Announces Bravo XR-Blu Disc Publisher

Primera Technology, the world's leading developer and manufacturer of automated CD/DVD duplication and printing equipment, today announced its Bravo XR-Blu Disc Publisher. Bravo XR-Blu is the world's first automated burn and print device to support new high-capacity Blu-ray Disc recorders and media. The initial release of the Bravo XR-Blu utilizes single-layer discs to store up to 25GB of data. An upgrade will be available shortly after launch that will allow dual-layer media, which stores up to 50GB of data per disc. Since up to 50 discs can be loaded into the Bravo XR-Blu at a time, this gives a total native capacity of up to 2.5TB (terabytes) of data that can be published in a single session. The Bravo XR-Blu, which will be exhibited at CeBIT 2006, is expected to begin shipping in April 2006 and will sell for $5995.

Source:blu-ray.com
 
Belmontvedere said:
You have to ask yourself what will the extra space afforded by BR discs offer? HD quality FMV cutscenes? The kind of content required by gameplay (3d models, textures, artwork, audio, etc.) is not nearly as much of a pig in size.

So say Square puts FF13 (atleast the PS3 version...) on BR discs. The actual game content, which compared to the super high quality video would be a relatively small amount of data, can be stored with alot of redundancy on the outer edges of the disc to make performance acceptable (lower seek time, faster loading, etc.). The larger video content can be stored without redundancy on the slower parts of the disc, and because it's read sequentially the performance would be acceptable.

Atleast that's how I see it. BR ultimately won't mean much for games. You have to be an eagle eyed perfectionist with perfect vision to tell the difference between HD and SD video. And even if you can tell the difference, what is the point? So you can see the zits actors chins? How is that going to give you a better experience? I'm supposed to pay hundreds of dollars for that "upgrade"? OT rant, but HD movies mean jack shirt to me.
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!!!!!!!!!!
 
Off Topic, but Blu-ray wholesale movie pricing

If a mod feels it's appropriate, they can spin this off into a new thread, but anyway, Sony has announced wholesale prices for Blu-ray movies - seems they're only going to be a little more expensive than DVDs:

Catalog Blu-ray disc titles will wholesale for $17.95, about the same as DVDs when that format hit the market in 1997. New-release Blu-ray discs will wholesale for $23.45, a premium of 15%-20% over what suppliers were charging for new theatrical DVDs.

The higher pricing structure for new releases is meant to accommodate the sell-through and rental markets, said Benjamin Feingold, president of Sony Pictures Home Entertainment. He noted that in at the dawn of DVD in 1997, most movies initially were released on rental-priced videocassettes.

"The premium is for a way better format and to remind retailers that at the time we launched DVD, VHS was selling for $55 wholesale in the first window," Feingold said.

He added that Sony will not attach any suggested list prices to its Blu-ray discs, at least not at this time.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/08/AR2006020800372.html

Also, they're going to start bundling UMDs with DVDs shortly, for a just a slightly higher price. They're considering similar things for Blu-ray.

Edit - some more from Video Business:

That should put the top cash register prices at about $34.95 and $29.95, respectively.

No other studio has yet announced retail prices for new releases, but Warner Home Video said recently that catalog prices for rival HD DVD releases also would be $29.95.

At one time, the new high-def formats were expected to command premium prices, but as the battle between the contending format camps has heated up, neither has wanted to give the other an edge in the marketplace.

The price ranges targeted by Sony and Warner are 15% to 20% higher than today’s DVD prices but comparable to movie prices at the time the current DVD format launched in 1997.
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Titanio said:
If a mod feels it's appropriate, they can spin this off into a new thread, but anyway, Sony has announced wholesale prices for Blu-ray movies - seems they're only going to be a little more expensive than DVDs:



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/08/AR2006020800372.html

Also, they're going to start bundling UMDs with DVDs shortly, for a just a slightly higher price. They're considering similar things for Blu-ray.

Edit - some more from Video Business:
Click to expand...


Cool, 15-20% more isn't a lot, considering what you're getting.

What worries me is that last night i watched Madagascar DVD on my upscaling HDMI DVD player and my HDTV, and it looked absolutely amazing. Not sure if the future HD version will look so much better to grant a purchase. I guess i'll have to see the real thing, but if it looks much better, i'll be very impressed, cause last night it was as close to HD as i've ever seen, without being HD.
 
I'd say you won't be seeing much difference between the image quality of SD vs. HD on a display that is 20"-30" something when viewed at a recommended viewing distance.

But on a big 50"+ screen I'm sure the difference is such you'll find it hard to watch sd material after that.

Good to see thje prices of Blu-ray discs won't be that much higher. As I get my front projector and a Blu-ray player there's no need to buy other than BR discs.
 
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-tkf- said:
So, a 3ghz CPU and a 7800 if you want HD playback on your PC, plus you need a HDMI capable graphic card as well.
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The best part of this is there a X1800 or 7800 with HDMI? I thought the only video card with HDMI was some prototype of a x1600 by sapphire.
 
Alpha_Spartan said:
QFT.

Sony just wants to sell cheap movie players so that studios will support the format with the highest userbase.
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According to Sony games years from now on the PS3 will be using Blu-ray disc just as much as the PS2 uses DVDs. That's what Kaz said.
 
ShootMyMonkey said:
10,000 RPM is wishful thinking, though. I doubt Bluray will ever be made out of anything all that unusual in terms of material, though there was that whole thing about using a cardboard substrate way back when, but it was still bonded to a regular polycarbonate underlayer, I think. Besides which, if they do that, there really *will* be a significant cost to the media.
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An ordinary old 52x CDROM drive can easily reach 10000 RPM. There has been some tests done by hobbyists indicating that ordinary polycarbonate CDROMs can withstand about 23000 RPM before falling apart; at those speeds, when they do fall apart, it will take a several-millimeter-thick metal sheet to stop the shrapnel. Presumably, CDROM drives stopped at 52x for safety reasons rather than motor or laser limitations.

If you want maximum performance, CLV drive operation cannot possibly make sense unless you are limited by the data rate of the laser; you simply max out the rotational speed of your drive and stick to that speed across the entire disc. This does mean that you get more than twice as high data rates near the outer edge as you do near the center, but there is no reason why the motor or disc should be able to withstand higher rotation rates just because the laser is closer to the center of the disc.
 
arjan de lumens said:
An ordinary old 52x CDROM drive can easily reach 10000 RPM. There has been some tests done by hobbyists indicating that ordinary polycarbonate CDROMs can withstand about 23000 RPM before falling apart; at those speeds, when they do fall apart, it will take a several-millimeter-thick metal sheet to stop the shrapnel. Presumably, CDROM drives stopped at 52x for safety reasons rather than motor or laser limitations.

If you want maximum performance, CLV drive operation cannot possibly make sense unless you are limited by the data rate of the laser; you simply max out the rotational speed of your drive and stick to that speed across the entire disc. This does mean that you get more than twice as high data rates near the outer edge as you do near the center, but there is no reason why the motor or disc should be able to withstand higher rotation rates just because the laser is closer to the center of the disc.
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Wasn't that test done by the Mythbusters? :) (I know I saw them doing some kind of test like that, and the expert they talked to said the only way to increase speeds from now on is with denser disks....which we are just now starting to see.)
 
arjan de lumens said:
An ordinary old 52x CDROM drive can easily reach 10000 RPM. There has been some tests done by hobbyists indicating that ordinary polycarbonate CDROMs can withstand about 23000 RPM before falling apart; at those speeds, when they do fall apart, it will take a several-millimeter-thick metal sheet to stop the shrapnel. Presumably, CDROM drives stopped at 52x for safety reasons rather than motor or laser limitations.
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Perhaps, but I've known CDRoms to shatter in fast CD drives. That may due to flaws in the disk, but it happens, and it'd be expected that the faster you spin them, the more shattered disks you get.
 
SubD said:
Content is cheap.

For the vast majority of games, it is dwarfed by salary in the budget. Once you are past the limits of a DVD there is little reason not to add value to your game by cranking out more content or licensing more music to fill up the rest of the BluRay disc.
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QFF. (Quoted for Falseness.)

Whose salary do you think it is that dwarfs everything else? Why, it's content creation artists and programmers, of course. Paying the people that create the content is part of the cost of content.

And don't forget that content has a bit of shelf life... there have been several titles in history that had half of their art scrapped and recreated because the content created at the start of the project wasn't as good as the content created in the latter stages of the project. This can be due to both technical changes in what can be used as art, and the growth and development of the content team in talent and resources.

So "just filling up the disc" isn't as easy as you make it sound. There are innumerable games (most of them, actually) that have to cut their targets and trim their game assets in order to get the product out the door. If every developer took the time to implement *every* checklist item we'd have competition for Duke Nuke'm Forever.

Content is, far and away, the most expensive portion of game production. Anyone who tells you different is developing Tetris.
 
For an interesting alternative viewpoint, consider this: if they bring out games larger than 9 Gb, it won't be possible to make bootleg copies on anything other than BluRay.
 
flf said:
QFF. (Quoted for Falseness.)

Whose salary do you think it is that dwarfs everything else? Why, it's content creation artists and programmers, of course. Paying the people that create the content is part of the cost of content.
Click to expand...

Never managed an actual shipping game or seen a project budget I assume.

Art is cheap.
Level/world creation is cheap.
Dumping content on a disc is cheap.

Engineers are expensive.
Technology is expensive.
A small subset of game art is expensive - like character models or vehicles in racing games.
Salary is usually up in the 70 percent range of most console projects. The majority of that high percentage is engineers and senior artists.

Paying for artists to create hours of movies is cheap.
Paying low level artists and level layout people to crank out levels is cheap.
Filling up space with licensed music is cheap.
Filling up space with demos is cheap.
Filling up space with bonus making of, behind the scenes, production artwork or similar type of content is cheap.

BluRay discs will rapidly fill to capacity. Just like every format used by games has done in the past.
 
ps2xboxcube said:
Blu-ray vs 12x DVD: read speed
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/profile/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=23916169&user=skektek

There is no doubt that Sony will have at least a 4x Blu-ray drive in the PS3. However, I think it will probably have a 6x drive.
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There is not doubt according to who?
4x would be VERY VERY generous of them, a 6x one is just not going to happen.
Oh by the way, Gamespot is wrong. Bluray drives support both CLV and CAV and can switch at any one time depending on the situation. We even posted it in this thread.
 
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