Derek Wilson of Anandtech...
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FrgMstr
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ANova said:
Hmmm, seems that what we wrote and what you remember are entirely two different things.
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDIx
GeForce FX 5800 Ultra Preview : They're back...finally. NVIDIA gave us the new GFFX and we run it through some benchmarks and IQ comparisons while going head to head with the ATi 9700 Pro.
"The idea that it sucks in air and is loud like a dustbuster holds a very vivid image in people's heads. I don't have a dustbuster to compare noise level and air speed with for you, so I will just use standard methods to see how hot and loud this device gets."
"So you CPU OCers out there might keep in mind that you are going to be mounting a card that generates as much heat as a new CPU, right under your already hot CPU."
"Sound is also another issue, if you are looking for a quiet case, this is not the card to for you."
"As we’ve seen, the GeForce FX is no slouch in the 3D accelerator world, however it is not the "9700-killer" many have expected."
And finally that glowing praise you mention, "The Bottom Line: The GeForceFX 5800 Ultra is a very hot and noisy beast that may give you a bit of an edge over the current king of the hill, the ATI 9700 Pro in some applications. If you are an NVIDIA ******, this of course has your name all over it. At the current US$400.00 price point, the GFFX simply does not seem worth it to us. If NVIDIA can work some driver magic and pull an extra 20% increase in frame rate out of the bag like we have seen in the past, they had best start pulling. Either that or pull out the NV35 chipset, and quick."
________________________________________________________________________
And just to jump ahead and keep you from having any more egg on your face, I will give you some NV35 material.
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDcy
GeForceFX 5900 Ultra / Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB : One article, two new video cards. NVIDIA's GeForceFX 5900 Ultra. ATI's Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB. Head to head IQ and Performance!
"Looking at AA Quality, we came to the conclusion that the ATI 9800 Pro 256MB card still has hands down the best AA quality. You cannot beat ATI’s rotated grid with gamma correct AA."
"Looking at Anisotropic Quality, we have to come to the conclusion that NVIDIA’s Anisotropic ultimately is done with a better technique on the 5900 Ultra. When push comes to shove, you cannot deny what the Filter Test is showing us. Still we have yet to see where the ATI AF technique gives us a negative in real gameplay. For most people the 9800 Pro’s Anisotropic is just fine, us included."
"Overall, when judging image quality, we have to give the hat to the 9800 Pro."
"Both cards offer exceptional performance, but if I have to place my finger on which card I would choose for my primary system that I play my games on, I would have to opt for the 256MB 9800 Pro. It has better AA quality, and can play at 6XAA on a 256MB card very easily. It has also proven to be very strong in shader operations. It is not an easy decision for sure now. NVIDIA has done a great job at sizing up the issues with the NV30 and fixing those issues and making the NV35 an incredibly competitive part."
Klye, aren't you the web master of HardOCP?
Posting links to articles you wrote doesn't mean much since you have the abilty to edit them yourself don't you?
I read your review of the FX5800 ultra on launch day, I remember that you recommended the FX5800 over the 9700, you also gave it an award ( hard award i think ), It seems that a lot of people have that same memory. we may have had a mass hallucination.
I suppose your will also say NVIDIA didn't tell you to bag out 3Dmark03?
Or that they didn't tell you ( and a bunch of other sites ) to write critical materiel about Ati's card availability on the x1800 launch day?
It's kinda funny that most of you " journalists " would write about that one thing in unison.
Hey you know what's funnier Ati stuck to their launch dates and cards were made available on the dates they said ( or a couple day's later ), The same with the x1900's. Now what about the GTX 512MB?
It's lucky you have own site, since you can ban your forum posters, edit and delete to your hearts content.
I have seen how you post on your own forums and the way you act is shameful, Then you come on here as a method of damage control, here you act very congenial towards the posters, but i think even the people who didn't read your " articles " can see through that.
EDIT : Just to add you posted your critical ATi story the day before the x1800 launch, you got the jump on the other sites.
Posting links to articles you wrote doesn't mean much since you have the abilty to edit them yourself don't you?
I read your review of the FX5800 ultra on launch day, I remember that you recommended the FX5800 over the 9700, you also gave it an award ( hard award i think ), It seems that a lot of people have that same memory. we may have had a mass hallucination.
I suppose your will also say NVIDIA didn't tell you to bag out 3Dmark03?
Or that they didn't tell you ( and a bunch of other sites ) to write critical materiel about Ati's card availability on the x1800 launch day?
It's kinda funny that most of you " journalists " would write about that one thing in unison.
Hey you know what's funnier Ati stuck to their launch dates and cards were made available on the dates they said ( or a couple day's later ), The same with the x1900's. Now what about the GTX 512MB?
It's lucky you have own site, since you can ban your forum posters, edit and delete to your hearts content.
I have seen how you post on your own forums and the way you act is shameful, Then you come on here as a method of damage control, here you act very congenial towards the posters, but i think even the people who didn't read your " articles " can see through that.
EDIT : Just to add you posted your critical ATi story the day before the x1800 launch, you got the jump on the other sites.
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Sander? Is that you?panzeramd said:
panzeramd said:
I think you'll find it was weeks for the X8nn and X18nn. As for the GTX 512MB was available on the day it was announced.
I get the feeling people are mixing up what the websites thought about FX 5800 before it was released and what they wrote after it was released to some extent. Going by the pure spec it did seem that the much delayed FX 5800 would still have the edge, but it soon came apparent it did not. Anand were a prime example of this as well. All those big numbers certainly did look good on paper.
Well many mix up THQ qoute " the new king" with Hardcopy's "quak"Kombatant said:I am surprised he didn't think of that before throwing accussations
And most review sites had a 9700 for 6months to play with before the nv30 . Tho i remember quite a few saying, just you wait the FX is around the corner (3 months before the 9700...) as they swim a blob of green goo... Unable to see that the uber driver performance from the new Dets was do to image reduction. Ahh them where the days... when 90% of the websites where green untill death do us part.I'd say suggestions such as these
at the bottom of the page of this FX5800 preview towards the end of 2002
Well I'd say it's nothing worse than various speculation, but I'd say that as for the difference [H] was at least at the time expected as a "true" and reputable source and not just a 50/50, or maybe it happens. While Kyle might have believed it himself, this kind of stuff is tricky to post so early, and surely burned [H] reputation big time.
As for FX5900 quoted in Kyle's post above. Kyle missed the ending where after a R9800 endorsement he states
I personally really don't like such ambigous ends, or totally opposite conclusions when your own graphs and thoughts point clearly in different direction.
and than adding "quack", the DIII results articles... 3DMark opinions etc
Well put it all together and there are reasons for people to view [H] as biased, but than again it is not the end of the world
at the bottom of the page of this FX5800 preview towards the end of 2002
must be one of the reasons that got people worked up on [H] as Nvidia pushers, when they effectively didn't know much about the card, but this surely made people wait and wait only to be bitterly dissapointed later.
Well I'd say it's nothing worse than various speculation, but I'd say that as for the difference [H] was at least at the time expected as a "true" and reputable source and not just a 50/50, or maybe it happens. While Kyle might have believed it himself, this kind of stuff is tricky to post so early, and surely burned [H] reputation big time.
As for FX5900 quoted in Kyle's post above. Kyle missed the ending where after a R9800 endorsement he states
I personally really don't like such ambigous ends, or totally opposite conclusions when your own graphs and thoughts point clearly in different direction.
and than adding "quack", the DIII results articles... 3DMark opinions etc
Well put it all together and there are reasons for people to view [H] as biased, but than again it is not the end of the world
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I'd make a Derek Smart joke, but then he'd show upHanners said:I thought it was maybe Tim Roberts.
Good grief.
Let me let you in on a couple of "little secrets" about online journalists...
We are human, we make mistakes. Unfortunately, because we lay everything we have on the line, those mistakes end up being posted on forums with wonderful comments like "******" "biased" "ignorant" "stupid" "liar" along with all these theories how we are being paid off one way or the other. While there may be some journalists that do receive some form of payment or another, that is far from being the status quo.
As journalists, we have contacts with these companies. These contacts are human too, and they have their own likes and dislikes. Because a PR person might personally like a journo, they often are friendlier to them, try harder to get them stuff, lead them to potential advertisers, etc. This is not to sway that journo, but rather it is a favor born out of friendship. I have several PR people that I am good friends with, that we discuss things far away from graphics/cpus/motherboards/etc. But business is business, and if one of these companies really screws up, I owe it to my readers to tell it how it is. Hard, AT, and others have all been equally hard on whatever IHV at one time or another, but it seems that many are saying these guys are green without really thinking why. I think the biggest reason that favor has switched over to NV is that NV hasn't stumbled since the FX days, while ATI has had quite a few issues in the past two years straight. I for one am ecstatic to see ATI come out with the X1900, and they have executed flawlessly on it. This is a big change from the past two years. I think we will start seeing that favor swing back to ATI as they have shipping product, while NV can't produce enough GTX 512's to satisfy demand, and they are still several months away from having an answer to the R580.
Journos may also not be getting the entire story, so their point of view may in fact be skewed. This skewed outlook is not some malicious artifact of having bias or being paid off. A good example is when I wrote that horrid State of 3D several years back. The main reason I didn't have much good information about ATI's products is that ATI was not willing to talk to me at that time. I learned a whole lot by producing that steaming pile, and while I am embarrased by the content of that article, I think in the end it was a very positive experience because it did create a lot of discussion, I learned a lot about both NV's and ATI's architecture, and ATI finally started to respond to me. So often when people call out bias on a journo, most often that person just has been exposed to really one side of the story. PR people have it tough as well, because there are thousands of would-be startups that put up a website and want hardware/information/contacts.
Whenever I hear bias, I always think back to the saying, "When you point a finger at someone, you are pointing three right back at you" (work with me, visualize pointing at someone with one finger... hopefully the index). Derek made a mistake, big deal. That doesn't mean that he sits in his office and is hand fed information directly from NV headquarters, and doesn't think for himself. Very few journos know anything about process tech other than just the numbers that are thrown out. In fact, how many users at large had any clue that he even made that mistake? Its a tough crowd here.
As for GTX 512 and 7300... NV continues to ship those big cards, but obviously not in good numbers. The issue with NV is getting chips that will run at that speed (not a PCB issue, or memory availability). Qualifying G70 parts to run at 550 MHz at 100C is not easy I am guessing. 7300's are now available from eVGA at their site, and from Newegg and others. More availability will be soon. Honestly, I could give a rats if the 7300 was hard launched, because who is really going to buy it? The hardcore enthusiast who can't wait to get his hands on this technology? I think not. This is going to be mainly a business class card and an OEM favorite. If it hits retail two weeks after launch, big deal. Now, if NVIDIA releases their next high end card to no availability, then we can all scream "paper launch" and they deserve to be castigated for it. That will be a high demand part for the very vocal enthusiast crowd, and if NV can't deliver, then there will be hell to pay. But for the 7300?
So just remember, us journos on the whole are not bad people. We don't take bribes, but we are also human in that if we are treated well by a certain company (namely they talk to us, which honestly is not that common) we may also cut some folks a break. Overall though, we are pleased to keep companies to task, as that is our job.
Let me let you in on a couple of "little secrets" about online journalists...
We are human, we make mistakes. Unfortunately, because we lay everything we have on the line, those mistakes end up being posted on forums with wonderful comments like "******" "biased" "ignorant" "stupid" "liar" along with all these theories how we are being paid off one way or the other. While there may be some journalists that do receive some form of payment or another, that is far from being the status quo.
As journalists, we have contacts with these companies. These contacts are human too, and they have their own likes and dislikes. Because a PR person might personally like a journo, they often are friendlier to them, try harder to get them stuff, lead them to potential advertisers, etc. This is not to sway that journo, but rather it is a favor born out of friendship. I have several PR people that I am good friends with, that we discuss things far away from graphics/cpus/motherboards/etc. But business is business, and if one of these companies really screws up, I owe it to my readers to tell it how it is. Hard, AT, and others have all been equally hard on whatever IHV at one time or another, but it seems that many are saying these guys are green without really thinking why. I think the biggest reason that favor has switched over to NV is that NV hasn't stumbled since the FX days, while ATI has had quite a few issues in the past two years straight. I for one am ecstatic to see ATI come out with the X1900, and they have executed flawlessly on it. This is a big change from the past two years. I think we will start seeing that favor swing back to ATI as they have shipping product, while NV can't produce enough GTX 512's to satisfy demand, and they are still several months away from having an answer to the R580.
Journos may also not be getting the entire story, so their point of view may in fact be skewed. This skewed outlook is not some malicious artifact of having bias or being paid off. A good example is when I wrote that horrid State of 3D several years back. The main reason I didn't have much good information about ATI's products is that ATI was not willing to talk to me at that time. I learned a whole lot by producing that steaming pile, and while I am embarrased by the content of that article, I think in the end it was a very positive experience because it did create a lot of discussion, I learned a lot about both NV's and ATI's architecture, and ATI finally started to respond to me. So often when people call out bias on a journo, most often that person just has been exposed to really one side of the story. PR people have it tough as well, because there are thousands of would-be startups that put up a website and want hardware/information/contacts.
Whenever I hear bias, I always think back to the saying, "When you point a finger at someone, you are pointing three right back at you" (work with me, visualize pointing at someone with one finger... hopefully the index). Derek made a mistake, big deal. That doesn't mean that he sits in his office and is hand fed information directly from NV headquarters, and doesn't think for himself. Very few journos know anything about process tech other than just the numbers that are thrown out. In fact, how many users at large had any clue that he even made that mistake? Its a tough crowd here.
As for GTX 512 and 7300... NV continues to ship those big cards, but obviously not in good numbers. The issue with NV is getting chips that will run at that speed (not a PCB issue, or memory availability). Qualifying G70 parts to run at 550 MHz at 100C is not easy I am guessing. 7300's are now available from eVGA at their site, and from Newegg and others. More availability will be soon. Honestly, I could give a rats if the 7300 was hard launched, because who is really going to buy it? The hardcore enthusiast who can't wait to get his hands on this technology? I think not. This is going to be mainly a business class card and an OEM favorite. If it hits retail two weeks after launch, big deal. Now, if NVIDIA releases their next high end card to no availability, then we can all scream "paper launch" and they deserve to be castigated for it. That will be a high demand part for the very vocal enthusiast crowd, and if NV can't deliver, then there will be hell to pay. But for the 7300?
So just remember, us journos on the whole are not bad people. We don't take bribes, but we are also human in that if we are treated well by a certain company (namely they talk to us, which honestly is not that common) we may also cut some folks a break. Overall though, we are pleased to keep companies to task, as that is our job.
NO!!!!!! DON'T SAY HIS NAME!!!!!!!!!!!The Baron said:I'd make a Derek Smart joke, but then he'd show up
geo said:Josh, you have something you want to tell us?
Haha, no. I am merely being conservative in my guessing. I haven't heard one way or the other, but by "several" I guess I mean "more than one month". Plus I forgot that March is only a month away.
Hmm, time to write a news blurb, "G71 delayed, months away!!!!" and attribute it to Josh.
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