XBox 360 DVD Playback Reviewed

[expletive]

A nice little review of the 360 as a DVD player from one of the most respected sites in A/V.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-...rch&articles=125#MicrosoftXbox 360 (Component)

Here's the nutshell for those who arent interested in the larger review:

The Xbox 360 is a pretty good DVD player, given its primary purpose. Its performance is pretty close to the average DVD player at this price point, but given that it is supposed to be using one of the best graphics cards out there, I was hoping for a bit more on the de-interlacing side. With all of its other features though, I still think this console is incredible in scope for entertainment, but I’ll reserve that for the feature article.

 

[habbe]

I have an little offtopic question about the deinterlace.

If the master (the movie) is 25 frames/sec then encoded to the dvd as 50 interlaced frames/sec.

And then displayed with the deinterlace as 25progressiv frames/sec, that would be the odd and even lines from frame 1 and 2 on the dvd. What i don't understand is what has been left out ? or as the orignal poster put it "I was hoping for a bit more on the de-interlacing side"

 

[NavNucST3]

I can't say I have been disappointed with the dvd playback, but I do prefer to use my standalone for this task.
To back up the authors point about black levels though, when I use this on my lcd tv, I need to constantly adjust the black levels. This has more to do with the tv and the component cables. I don't seem to have this issue when I use the VGA cables. I was actually hoping he was going to do a comparison between the two types of cables.

 

[Diamond.G]

From my experience the 360 seems to be a little bit more grainy. Other than that movies look okay on it.

 

[Jogi]

x360 dvd play.. progressive in here PAL land work just fine. However there is couple bits that I dont like.
- picture skips few frames sometimes, in some DVD's it is every 5 minutes, in some just couple of times per movie.
-more annoying is picture quality and all DVD's seems to be affected. Problem is color banding in dark, low contrast scenes. In some scenes it seems as image is 16bit (65000 colors.)

I have taken few pics to shows this effect, taken from a T2, which is not the worst example.
Color banding 1: http://www.websaitti.com/kuvat/banding1.jpg
More subtle color banding:http://www.websaitti.com/kuvat/banding2.jpg
And reference from my lowcost dvd player: http://www.websaitti.com/kuvat/nobanding.jpg

I really hope MS updates the x360 DVD player, it hurts my eyes to watch this sh*tty colorbanding effect

 

[expletive]

x360 dvd play.. progressive in here PAL land work just fine. However there is couple bits that I dont like.
- picture skips few frames sometimes, in some DVD's it is every 5 minutes, in some just couple of times per movie.
-more annoying is picture quality and all DVD's seems to be affected. Problem is color banding in dark, low contrast scenes. In some scenes it seems as image is 16bit (65000 colors.)

I have taken few pics to shows this effect, taken from a T2, which is not the worst example.
Color banding 1: http://www.websaitti.com/kuvat/banding1.jpg
More subtle color banding:http://www.websaitti.com/kuvat/banding2.jpg
And reference from my lowcost dvd player: http://www.websaitti.com/kuvat/nobanding.jpg

I really hope MS updates the x360 DVD player, it hurts my eyes to watch this sh*tty colorbanding effect

Do you have a digital display?

 

[NavNucST3]

So is this a possible turn-off to the hd-dvd add-on, or do you all see this as a different beast. Sorry, expletive, if this leads to a thread hijack...

 

[expletive]

So is this a possible turn-off to the hd-dvd add-on, or do you all see this as a different beast. Sorry, expletive, if this leads to a thread hijack...

Color banding can be caused by a number of things. Basically its the result of some part of the video chain to not be able to resolve a higher enough bit depth to produce smooth gradients. This can also be part of poor mpg encoding. Also, a lot of the digital displays out now are very sensitive to this as their color reproduction may not be as good as what we're used to seeing with a CRT. Without Being able to test different combinations of players, softawre, displays, discs in his setup its not easy to tell. If it is the 360 in this instance its the precision being used by the software not some intrinsic problem with the hardware. There is no "hardware" mpg decoder in the 360, its all being done by the ATI deinterlacer software so it too could be upgraded. Bottom line is that the 360 is not any worse suited for HD-DVD becuase of the results of banding seen here. It will need an all new software solution for HD-DVD so we'll be able to judge it then.

 

[NavNucST3]

Color banding can be caused by a number of things. Basically its the result of some part of the video chain to not be able to resolve a higher enough bit depth to produce smooth gradients. This can also be part of poor mpg encoding. Also, a lot of the digital displays out now are very sensitive to this as their color reproduction may not be as good as what we're used to seeing with a CRT. Without Being able to test different combinations of players, softawre, displays, discs in his setup its not easy to tell. If it is the 360 in this instance its the precision being used by the software not some intrinsic problem with the hardware. There is no "hardware" mpg decoder in the 360, its all being done by the ATI deinterlacer software so it too could be upgraded. Bottom line is that the 360 is not any worse suited for HD-DVD becuase of the results of banding seen here. It will need an all new software solution for HD-DVD so we'll be able to judge it then.

I would imagine this is why I am hoping SED can finally replicate CRT quality, and the reason I am saving my pennies. I really really want to get rid of my CRT and get something larger, but nothing comes close to its PQ...(at least on my budget) every LCD TV that I have seen the 360 on has left me less than impressed. I started to see why some people couldn't see just how good the graphics are on the 360.

 

[Jogi]

Do you have a digital display?

Pics were taken from my little analog tv but yes, I have lcd projector Panasonic AE300. Color banding shows in both devices. And thats only when using a x360 as dvd player, my ps2 and standalone dvd player picture output is just fine.

 

[randycat99]

Londonboy "broke the story" at this forum earlier this month:

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26516

Look at the last post on the 1st page- should be post #21.

 

[Guden Oden]

What i don't understand is what has been left out ? or as the orignal poster put it "I was hoping for a bit more on the de-interlacing side"

There are several ways of deinterlacing a video signal, but the main thing to remember is that almost the only material available on DVDs that is encoded in an interlaced format are some special features on certain movies (the giant documentary on making The Abyss for example) and pornos.

Motion pictures are shot on film stock, or in the case of the latest star wars movie and perhaps a few others, digitally. Both these formats are progressive by nature when transferred straight to DVD.

 

[dukmahsik]

if i want to play dvds ill buy a dvd player thanks, ill buy a dedicated hd dvd or BR player as well

 

[weaksauce]

if i want to play dvds ill buy a dvd player thanks, ill buy a dedicated hd dvd or BR player as well

Well yeah of course if you have money for a $1000 bd-player that's fine.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Well yeah of course if you have money for a $1000 bd-player that's fine.

Or maybe he would be one of the smart ones who waits until they are less than $200 and there is some actual content available.

 

[dukmahsik]

Well yeah of course if you have money for a $1000 bd-player that's fine.

no one said i have to buy one when they launch, who's stupid enough to buy one for that price anyways without a industry standard? im not filthy rich!

 

[expletive]

There are several ways of deinterlacing a video signal, but the main thing to remember is that almost the only material available on DVDs that is encoded in an interlaced format are some special features on certain movies (the giant documentary on making The Abyss for example) and pornos.

Motion pictures are shot on film stock, or in the case of the latest star wars movie and perhaps a few others, digitally. Both these formats are progressive by nature when transferred straight to DVD.

I'm not sure what youre saying here, that some of the content on DVDs is actually native 480p?

The way i understand it is this...

What tends to trip players up is the way the mastering studio encodes the soruce material and what ways the player can detect what that source material is. The 2 main types are video and film. Video was shot at 29.97 fps and film at 24 fps. Now players look for ways to determine what the original source material was so they can apply the right algorithm to the DVD which is 480i. Using a set of encoded flags or auto detecting is what puts the player in film mode or video mode. If they player cannot determine what the source format it you get deitnerlacing artifacts and they look bad. (thats not what we're seeing in the linked thread however). So if you look at the review theres a bunch of ways that players determine the source and they test almost all the known encoding strategies. The more tests a player fails, the lower it scores. The player scored a 71 which is pretty good in the larger picture but given the power of the unit he was probably hoping for something in teh 80s and to pass more of the tests i.e. "more on the deinterlacing side".

I've sent a message to Kris to see if he's seen anythign like the color problems on the linked thread so i'll update here if hear anythign back.

 

[Guden Oden]

Well yeah of course if you have money for a $1000 bd-player that's fine.

They won't all cost $1000. I don't know why all you BR sceptics think they'll all cost a grand. FFS, BR isn't rocket tech. It's a friggin optical drive that were likely invented in the late 70s and been available commercially since early 80s. It's a variation on a very well-known concept.

Besides, why buy a standalone player when it'll likely only provide a very marginal difference in video quality and even less in audio (when using optical out), when it means another device in the hifi rack with a front that won't match all the others, another cord to go into another jack in the power strip and another friggin remote on the table in front of the TV... Bleck!

 

[AlphaWolf]

Besides, why buy a standalone player when it'll likely only provide a very marginal difference in video quality and even less in audio (when using optical out), when it means another device in the hifi rack with a front that won't match all the others, another cord to go into another jack in the power strip and another friggin remote on the table in front of the TV... Bleck!

Because consoles generally suck as playback devices compared to standalones? They use more power, they make alot more noise, the remotes cost extra and/or suck, the controls are often lacking in features or buried in menus etc. etc.

How anyone could stand to use a console as their main playback device, I have no idea.

 

[randycat99]

How anyone could stand to use a console as their main playback device, I have no idea.

It seems MS disagrees with your assessment of consumers interested in movie playback on consoles. Otherwise, why did they even bother to put a DVD player functionality in X360 (could've saved the buyer some money on licensing, and it's not like the existing userbase of standalone DVD players are still a rarity)? Why even bother with the extra detail of the fan system scaling down during movie playback, if it is worth nobody's time to watch movies on X360? Why do they even bother to rattle the saber about an HD-DVD external drive for HD movies on X360. That would seem to suggest somebody is interested in that market. It is simply another example of "convergence" strategy in effect. No one questions what the point of PVR functionality on some future X360 or streaming PC media hub when you can just get a standalone hdd tuner device, do they?

The whole notion that consoles make for inferior movie players is becoming more irrelevant as the technology advances (except the X360 player seems to have dropped the ball on even this for reasons unclear). It's not like everybody is running out to buy 50+ inch hdtv's, either (that market segment will certainly be looking at top-shelf standalone players, anyway). So the "image quality" differences aren't really going to be apparent on lesser and smaller screens, anyway. I believe someone, not too long ago, claimed that the mass market won't be buying into $5k-10k big hdtv's for some time. So that would seem to fall inline that "DVD player quality" isn't really going to be much of a factor on the 30-ish inch screen sizes most people will be running.