Killzone Prerendered E3 Trailer Talk

[Tesselator]

Why do you keep saying the still shots are gone? They are still there.

Also, this post may interest you: http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=killzone&message.id=73473#M73473

One last post before I go... in the link above the following quote exists:

"It was created to the specs of the PS3 and represents what we feel
is achievable on PS3."

I'm here to tell you that it is impossible to tune Lightwave to the
exact specs (or even very comparable specs) of any hardware
graphic sub-system peroid so the word "feel" in the above sentence
is a very key word. And actually his feelings are "perfectly mistaken".

​

ok.. Now I really have to go...

Bye all.

 

["Nerve-Damage"]

I don't see how anyone would need anymore proof, maybe they'll claim that was part of the hoax as well.

No dude there was another shot list or pic-page that had actual supposed Lightwave 3D Killzone assets within that link that I posted. That link (I posted) was working perfectly…plain and simple.

I just find it highly strange that Sony/Guerilla would not NDA this guy if he’s the real deal. Especially a title that is considered to be Sony front man for the PS3 graphic capabilities.

Anyhow the CES show and Sony Feb-Event would prove or disprove Sony claims, not some random poster or random site. By the way Major YNOS site had just as many google links to it also

 

[zidane1strife]

One last post before I go... in the link above the following quote exists:

"It was created to the specs of the PS3 and represents what we feel
is achievable on PS3."

I'm here to tell you that it is impossible to tune Lightwave to the
exact specs (or even very comparable specs) of any hardware
graphic sub-system peroid so the word "feel" in the above sentence
is a very key word. And actually his feelings are "perfectly mistaken".

​

ok.. Now I really have to go...

Bye all.

Alas, geometry lvls of characters and background are one thing that can easily be tuned to spec(things like seemingly little or no-clothing animation on anything but the hellghast coat, and limited at that too), and so too can textures(which many in the killzone trailer are below those of realtime applications).

BTW, where exactly is that quote, can anyone tell me, I'm having a bit of trouble finding it.

 

[weaksauce]

Alas, geometry lvls of characters and background are one thing that can easily be tuned to spec(things like seemingly little or no-clothing animation on anything but the hellghast coat, and limited at that too), and so too can textures(which many in the killzone trailer are below those of realtime applications), so t

BTW, where exactly is that quote, can anyone tell me, I'm having a bit of trouble finding it.

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=killzone&message.id=73473#M73473

 

[zidane1strife]

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=killzone&message.id=73473#M73473

Not that one this one:

One last post before I go... in the link above the following quote exists:

"It was created to the specs of the PS3 and represents what we feel
is achievable on PS3."

I'm here to tell you that it is impossible to tune Lightwave to the
exact specs (or even very comparable specs) of any hardware
graphic sub-system peroid so the word "feel" in the above sentence
is a very key word. And actually his feelings are "perfectly mistaken".

 

[weaksauce]

Not that one this one:

"As for the E3 presentation, it was not running live on Dev Kits, as the final spec dev kits did not exist for E3. It was created to the specs of the PS3 and represents what we feel is achievable on PS3."

 

[zidane1strife]

"As for the E3 presentation, it was not running live on Dev Kits, as the final spec dev kits did not exist for E3. It was created to the specs of the PS3 and represents what we feel is achievable on PS3."

I'm here to tell you that it is impossible to tune Lightwave to the
exact specs (or even very comparable specs) of any hardware
graphic sub-system peroid so the word "feel" in the above sentence
is a very key word. And actually his feelings are "perfectly mistaken".

Though it may simply be Tesselator's response/words in his post here, it sounded as if it was part of a quote from someone in there, btchslapping the dev. into submission in that thread.

 

[SanGreal]

No dude there was another shot list or pic-page that had actual supposed Lightwave 3D Killzone assets within that link that I posted. That link (I posted) was working perfectly…plain and simple.

Um, no. First off, that link you posted never worked.

You linked to "http://jeremy.lwidof.net/demoreel/je..._shotlist.html"

Notice the "..." in the middle of it. Its a bad link, plain and simple. The proper link is http://jeremy.lwidof.net/demoreel/jeremyhardin_shotlist.html (you will see the "..." here too because vbulletin truncates long links but my link is to the actual url and not the truncated url) and the site never had anything other than what is on it now.

There is more shown in the video at http://jeremy.lwidof.net/demoreel/

 

[mckmas8808]

I got something important to say about NEXT-GEN!

I will say this and no more: If any developer, person, company,
or other entity tells you, me, or the press, that either the XBox 360
or the Sony PlayStation3 is capable or will ever be capable in their
respective product cycles, of reproducing in its entirety, the video
effects shown in Jeremy's footage in any form of real time computational
delivery on a raster display device of any size resolution they are
perfectly mistaken.

The reason why whether honest mistake for flat out lie, I will leave
up to others to determine.

[rant]
Good to know that next-gen now sucks. If Killzone can't be done in real-time ever on the PS3 or a Killzone looking game can't be done on the Xbox 360 then next-gen sucks.

And that goes to all developers on this board. If you guys can't make a game that looks even remotely close to Killzone (i.e. character quailty, smoke effects, fire, particle effects, and look of weapons in particular) ever on these next gen systems then you guys and/or Sony, MS, Nvidia, and ATI all suck.

I hate to say it but if Gears of War is going to be the cream of the crop for next-gen games for next-gen then consider me a lost consumer for real. I will never support an industry that wants me to pay $400 of a console that can't deliver real next-gen games. (PGR3 excluded)

Don't worry Ninja Theory I will buy a PS3 just to say I got one and I will buy your game. But if games like Killzone and Motorstorm can't be done for another 6-10 years then why even bother. Screw next-gen! Give me

1. Character faces that rival the Alfred Molina demo
2. Physics that make cars break apart like Motorstorm
3. Thick smoke that rivals Killzone's video
4. Animation that seems more natural and not extension of what we play now
5. Lighting that's in the RE5 video
6. A.I. that's in Killzone. Like when the guy runs out of bullets his friend hands him a gun. Or when a dead body is on the ground, your men help him off the field of war.


If you developers can't give us these things and plenty more (I don't have time to think about everthing right now) then I will comment suicide from being a gamer and just be a guy that spends more money on movies and other forms of entertainment.

[/rant]

 

[pegisys]

[rant]
Good to now that next-gen now sucks. If Killzone can't be done in real-time ever on the PS3 or a Killzone looking game can't be done on the Xbox 360 then next-gen sucks......
[/rant]

most people can't tell the difference betweene a model with 100,000 polygons or one with 100 polygons and normal maps, you will probably play a game a year from now and think it looks better then this video but the people that say it's not possible in realtime aren't just looking at how it looks but how it's done

for example, this picture of the gun from killzone
http://jeremy.lwidof.net/demoreel/images/shotlist/shotlist_009.jpg

something like this wouldn't be good for realtime graphics, and would probably only be used to render a normal map for a lower polygon model with the same shape

 

[Lysander]

Wow, Wardevil was also made in LightWave, Digi claimed it was realtime.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=188389
CGTalk - Lightwave & WarDevil

 

[m1nd_x]

No dude there was another shot list or pic-page that had actual supposed Lightwave 3D Killzone assets within that link that I posted. That link (I posted) was working perfectly…plain and simple.

I just find it highly strange that Sony/Guerilla would not NDA this guy if he’s the real deal. Especially a title that is considered to be Sony front man for the PS3 graphic capabilities.

Anyhow the CES show and Sony Feb-Event would prove or disprove Sony claims, not some random poster or random site. By the way Major YNOS site had just as many google links to it also

Check your temporary internet files and find them I guess. Maybe, he realized having the actual assets on his page is against NDA, or maybe they're partially owned by Guerilla games and they don't want them posted?

Jeremy Hardin has several lightwave script tutorials floating around on his website that are referenced on a ton of sites, I even saw a few where they made a news post about it's released. He's also a member at this site..
http://www.3dfightclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3377

I see no reason to think realistically not believe that he is capable of this judging by the work in his gallery section.

Not that one this one:

Dude, that post is on this page... from Tesselator.

[rant]

It's not going to be all that bad

Hang in there.. it should be close, you just have to be realistic about certain things.

 

[zidane1strife]

Dude, that post is on this page... from Tesselator.

Yeah, I thought he was saying that his comment was there too since it was tabbed/spaced the same as the quote.

 

[mckmas8808]

Respectfully asking

Suffice to say regardless - the full video that was presented by Sony
is currently impossible to produce in computational real time by the
PS3 or even the XBox 360 for that matter.






​

If that smoke in the Killzone video can't be done on the PS3 or 360 then what's the big difference between this smoke (done on the 360 @ 60 fps as a launch game that was made for the PC too)

and this smoke (suppose to be a PS3 game)

http://jeremy.lwidof.net/demoreel/images/shotlist/shotlist_007.jpg


Now I know that the Killzone smoke is better overall over what COD2 had, but given that it's a PS3 exclusive game and Gureilla only has to program for one machine I will tend to think that it is possible. Also given the fact that the PS3 obviously has better hardware for stuff like this than the PC that the COD2 devs have to target and it makes me really think it is possible.

It's comparsions like this that make me say if devs can't deliver on this smoke
http://jeremy.lwidof.net/demoreel/images/shotlist/shotlist_008.jpg

then either they are not trying hard enough or they just suck. Plain and simple.

 

[Bad_Boy]

Im not sure, But i think COD2 and KZ's smoke were done two different ways. The reason KZ's smoke looks so much better because its Volumetric Smoke, actual 3d smoke with the light of fire ambiently going through it. COD2's smoke, from when I last played it, looked like 2d smoke. I dont think I ever got a chance to walk around the smoke when it was like that. (like when the building collapsed). I might be wrong. But volumetric smoke is much more complicated. And not to be blunt, but I think the COD2 team faked their smoke.

On the other hand, the trailers we have seen (KZ/Warhawk/Motostorm/FF-demo/I-8/HS) all show methods of very similar smoke, so it seems like the ps3 hardware would definately be capable of doing events like that in-game.

I really hope its possible because the part in motorstorm, when the dust/smoke was flying behind the cars in the birds eye view was simply impressive.

 

[dubert]

Everything in the mgs4 video was realtime and that was the realtime killzone code shared by sony that you saw at that moment, though no one could tell the difference

You can definately see a difference in the KZ video, and the MGS4 video.
MGS4 is definately legit, and KZ is definately not.
The quality of the GI, meshes and Hypervoxels ( hint hint ) is in a whole different level than in MGS4. The MGS4 trailer doesn't even seem to have parallax mapping, which seems to be the *thing* in the next gen games. And there's a single character talking to a robot thingy, in very simple surroundings, with low resolution textures ( for next gen ), makes it significantly different from KZ. You should be able to spot the differences.

 

[dubert]

I'm sorry but if Lair is possible in Real-Time ( confirmed by Factor 5 to be, detailed on engine ), then Killzone definately was.

vs.

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/a...sh, with normalmapping and perpixel lighting.

 

[MBDF]

Well I'm quite certain Jeremy would not put up a hoax as a qualifying
demonstration of his abilities as a CG artist. And since that's what
those images were intended for I would have to deduce that they
are legitimate. I have an extensive background as CG artist myself.
I'm very well versed in Maya, XSI, and Lightwave. Understanding
the process that a 3d piece goes through from the time of its
conception to its commission, delivery, and still yet for inclusion in
the artists own portfolio may be the key in understanding the
discrepancies you see between those still shots and whenever
video you're comparing them to.

Suffice to say regardless - the full video that was presented by Sony
is currently impossible to produce in computational real time by the
PS3 or even the XBox 360 for that matter.
​

Why do you say "or for the XBox 360 for that matter" as if to say it is more powerfull?

 

[zRifle1z]

Well I'm quite certain Jeremy would not put up a hoax as a qualifying
demonstration of his abilities as a CG artist. And since that's what
those images were intended for I would have to deduce that they
are legitimate. I have an extensive background as CG artist myself.
I'm very well versed in Maya, XSI, and Lightwave. Understanding
the process that a 3d piece goes through from the time of its
conception to its commission, delivery, and still yet for inclusion in
the artists own portfolio may be the key in understanding the
discrepancies you see between those still shots and whenever
video you're comparing them to.

Suffice to say regardless - the full video that was presented by Sony
is currently impossible to produce in computational real time by the
PS3 or even the XBox 360 for that matter.
​

Well let me be one of the few that thanks you for your honesty Tesselator: Thank you. As I stated in another thread I would love to purchase a PS3 as soon as I know what the system can really do, as opposed to all the hype and PR spin (that comes from MS & Sony). MS impressed me by showing actual gameplay. I am sure Sony will impress me just the same as soon as they start showing actual gameplay.

It is information such as Tesselator's that keeps me comming back to B3D, and I hope information such as this will continue. A lot of the responses within this thread though are truly out of charater, but I am telling you if the PS3 can produce the quality of in-game real time graphics as shown in Gears of War for the XBOX 360 I will enjoy the PS3 just the same.

 

[dubert]

Crap, sorry... cant seem to edit my posts.

But that lair screen vs.

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/614/614722/killzone-next-gen-20050516075937991.jpg

Actually that KZ screenie clearly proves the point.
The GI in it seems to be noisy, which means low quality Monte Carlo radiosity ( see the face of the character looking towards the camera ).
The poly counts on the meshes are way too high.
The hair on the characters is clearly SAS, as opposed to the textured polystrips on the head of the MGS4 character.

( SAS = Sasquatch by Worley Labs )