Revolution Tech Details Emerge ( Xbox1+ performance, 128 MB RAM )

[see colon]

Although unlike XBox, GCN actually supports Cluts, so it generally wouldn't need recompressing unless you're short on memory.

what if you are short on storage?

 

[Barbarian]

what if you are short on storage?

Actually, from very recent experience, the first thing to go when short on storage on GC is sound fidelity (resampled sounds etc). Textures are next, especially in this case where the engine was very PS2 centric and used a lot of textures with multiple palettes (CLUTs) per image. But like someone else said, when it comes to textures, the first limit one hits is main RAM.

 

[Fafalada]

what if you are short on storage?

Like I said, you usually have more space to gain by downsampling music, sound, and videos first.

I would even argue that converting from 8bitClut to 4bitS3TC isn't necesserily a win for storage space in the first place - most games store data on disc compressed with some lossless scheme (derivates of LZW or similar are common).
Since in my experience paletted textures tend to be more friendly to your typical LZW compressor - what you gain in uncompressed space with S3, you may very well loose back when the data is packed to final form.

 

[Ty]

http://revolution.ign.com/articles/674/674611p1.html

Imo, they've pretty much confirmed the leaked rough estimates by NOT denying them whatsoever.

 

[Rodéric]

Nintendo just know they can't play the specs games, they are not playing it since a long time anyway.

I'm just upset having been caught in the whole "specs rules" thing, because I know what can be done with not that fast hardware (GF4Ti 64MB) with a good CPU (2GHz) and a good amount of RAM (256MB), and it IS great.

I was thinking that the new gen consoles would be the last to have a *big* graphic improvement, but I might just be wrong, since the X360 graphics failed to wow me.

I still think many people don't want "just a NGC on steroïd", and want something more.
I still want a 970MP@2GHz, with (now) an RV530 with embbed framebuffer, and 256MB of RAM
That's as low as I'm willing to go, but as always I won't be an early adopter and will wait a year before buying anything, and the games will be the decisive factor.
Basically it's Revolution or nothing for me this gen. (Maybe a DS, they are fun)

 

[Bill]

I was thinking that the new gen consoles would be the last to have a *big* graphic improvement, but I might just be wrong, since the X360 graphics failed to wow me.

According to Carmack's comments we have a long way to go.

And the fact video cards keep getting faster at breakneck rates.

One thing about the 360, it had to triple it's power just to get the same graphics at hi res.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Acctually I think Nintendo had did somethingh similar in GB, but I think it does not had sucess.

They never made much use of the GBA Gamecube connection........

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Nintendo speaks...

http://revolution.ign.com/articles/674/674611p1.html

Says pretty much what I've been saying...

 

[Teasy]

As soon as you start making sense.

I'm making sense, unfortunately your just a very stuborn person

Yes, but that's based on some developer comments...not based on what the dev kit is being called.

My opinion is not based purely on that, as I said earlier, its just one contributing factor (it would explain some of these developer comments for a start).

 

[see colon]

Like I said, you usually have more space to gain by downsampling music, sound, and videos first.

I would even argue that converting from 8bitClut to 4bitS3TC isn't necesserily a win for storage space in the first place - most games store data on disc compressed with some lossless scheme (derivates of LZW or similar are common).
Since in my experience paletted textures tend to be more friendly to your typical LZW compressor - what you gain in uncompressed space with S3, you may very well loose back when the data is packed to final form.

hmm... perhaps the games i notice the blurry textures the most are because dev's aren't doing what you described above. a perfect example, and i can't believe i didn't mention it above, is POP:WW. there's a decent amount of video in that game, and it's noticibly worse looking than the ps2 version or the xbox version (ps2 looks the best for video), the voices are muddled and noticibly not as crisp as the background music, and most of the textures are blurry, with some being downright ugly. plus, i'm pretty sure the game runs in 16bit, so that's not helping anything. i sorta pissed that i bought WW for the GC without really looking at it first. SoT was good looking on the cube, so i expected WW to follow that trend.

speaking of color depth... if revolution does turn out to have a "super flipper", it better not be limited to 24bit.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I'm making sense, unfortunately your just a very stuborn person

I'll see you half way...you don't make sense AND I'm stubborn.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

speaking of color depth... if revolution does turn out to have a "super flipper", it better not be limited to 24bit.

Actually, I would guess (complete guess) that when cost is a primary concern as it likely is is Revolution, 24 bit seems like a reasonable sweet spot to me. The benefits of going to a 32 bit pixel pipeline probably would not outweigh the cost.

I could see a RV350 type part...but with 24 bit precision in the pixel shaders, for example...

 

[Teasy]

Imo, they've pretty much confirmed the leaked rough estimates by NOT denying them whatsoever.

That's just a general response sent to anyone who emails Nintendo about Revolution and Power/HDTV. It even says as much at the start of the page, I wouldn't take a cut and paste job like that as confirmation. I'm awaiting some kind of Q&A with Nintendo and hopefully whoever does it will ask some very direct questions, then we can know for sure.

 

[Apoc]

hmm... perhaps the games i notice the blurry textures the most are because dev's aren't doing what you described above. a perfect example, and i can't believe i didn't mention it above, is POP:WW. there's a decent amount of video in that game, and it's noticibly worse looking than the ps2 version or the xbox version (ps2 looks the best for video), the voices are muddled and noticibly not as crisp as the background music, and most of the textures are blurry, with some being downright ugly. plus, i'm pretty sure the game runs in 16bit, so that's not helping anything. i sorta pissed that i bought WW for the GC without really looking at it first. SoT was good looking on the cube, so i expected WW to follow that trend.

speaking of color depth... if revolution does turn out to have a "super flipper", it better not be limited to 24bit.

Curious you talk about pop:ww, in the ign review they said the GC version was the one with better graphics.

 

[Teasy]

I'll see you half way...you don't make sense AND I'm stubborn.

Nah sorry no go, we're both stuborn but I still made sense. Don't make me go over the whole dev kit name thing again!

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Don't make me go over the whole dev kit name thing again!

Wouldn't dare to!

 

[Rodéric]

According to Carmack's comments we have a long way to go.

I didn't meant gfx won't improve, just that the jump will be less noticable to users, it'll look better, but not by a huge margin.

 

[see colon]

Curious you talk about pop:ww, in the ign review they said the GC version was the one with better graphics.

the game looks like you're playing a FMV game for the 32x sometimes because of all of the banding and dithering. other times it's pretty good looking. the PS2 version has better color accuracy, but it's a bit chunky in both framerate and resolution. the xbox version has much better resolution and cleaner textures and i prefer the slowdown and rewind effects (i wouldn't say they were better, just different), but the water looks worse than the GC version.

Actually, I would guess (complete guess) that when cost is a primary concern as it likely is is Revolution, 24 bit seems like a reasonable sweet spot to me. The benefits of going to a 32 bit pixel pipeline probably would not outweigh the cost.

I could see a RV350 type part...but with 24 bit precision in the pixel shaders, for example.

i wasn't talking about fp24, i was talking about the 24bit color depth limit of the GC's framebuffer.

 

[Fox5]

They never made much use of the GBA Gamecube connection........

I think he was referring to the Gameboy camera from the black and white gameboy games. (compared to the eyetoy)

 

[g35er]

Until we have graphics that are virtually indistinguishable from at least broadcast 480p TV, we're not done yet. Imagine someone walking into a room seeing you watch a basketball game and they sit down next to you and all of a sudden realize you're controlling Tim Duncan. Imagine playing a movie based game such as King Kong, but the visuals of the game are exactly like the movie.

I didn't meant gfx won't improve, just that the jump will be less noticable to users, it'll look better, but not by a huge margin.