Allard in OPM interview on the hardware

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Bill

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"OPM - What about tech difference? The Xbox's late arrival gave it better hardware, which made it attractive to devs like Team Ninja.

Allard - In the last gen, we hadn't even started hardware before they shipped. So we did have that advantage, we were willing to spend more and lose more. They're talking about Spring 2006 release - the specs they published are equivalent to the specs we published when you go away from theoretical performance. It's a jump ball. Two companies selling something at Wal-Mart for the same amount of money and coming four months apart. They aren't going to have products that are materially different. Plus they're willing to dump a whole lot of money per unit, and I'll tell you what: As a company with more money than just about anyone, Microsoft isn't willing to do that again because it was really tough for us the first time around. So I'd be surprised if they had a strategy that said they could lose a few billion this gen to make more powerful hardware.

You have to think Sony has learned their lesson about online. If they had XBL, Gran Turismo would be online. And you have to think that hurt them, because Polyphonal always wanted GT online. Sony wouldn't sold more copies, and it would've been better for the PlayStation brand. They diluted a franchise property in a world where you can play Forza online or NFS online on another company's system. Here's the title that defines your companies system, and you can't make it online? That's disappointing. I love the game and own every single one, so I'm hoping as a gamer they get serious about online."

Interesting.

Actually very interesting strategy interviews from both camps.
http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=73491
 
I have to say, I agree with Sony more than MS.

Look at PSP. For all the dogging, it's basically a big success.

It shows you need to focus on hardware.

Which MS actually did, except the EDRAM decision may be the achilles heel in my opinion. 337m on the GPU would have been fine.

"OPM - You're #1, gonna get complacent?

Hirai - Any business that is successful has this risk, especially the longer you're on top, because you might take this position as a given. You might have tricked yourself into thinking you're there cuz you're a genius. That's bullshit. We're here cause we work hard, and we gotta keep this up to stay in this spot."

That's awesome.
 
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If PS3 has online support like the PSP (along with some other stuff like a friends list and a match finding service type thing) then I'd love it -- every game I have for PSP has some kind of wi-fi support (be it downloadable stuff, adhoc multiplayer or other multiplayer). I'd wait to see how it all pans out, Mr. Allard, before passing judgement -- you'd be crazy to assume GT5 won't have online support.

(And even without it, it'll probably still be the best racer out there...)

I honestly wish all those magazines/interviews would stop asking him about competitors, then he doesn't have to make ridiculous claims (which he knows are largely based on FUD). Same goes for Sony too. Interviews need to stop asking stupid questions, and they might not get stupid answers.

What the hell did OPM think he was going to say when they asked that -- did they think they were going to get some new insight or some answer that nobody else has gotten? It was as canned a response as you get, and thats all you can expect from a person who works at the company and has spent a great deal of time on the product in question. Although it is kind of cute that OPM had an interview with Allard.


Also: The information about PS3's online sounds good -- previous information has made it seem like they were ignoring it, but Kaz seems to say otherwise. This next gen should get interesting.
On another note, I always liked Kaz Hirai -- much better than Kutaragi or Allard (although I don't mind Robbie Bach he seems reasonable enough, but Kutaragi and Allard are cheeseballs -- thats their job, I suppose).
 
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Which MS actually did, except the EDRAM decision may be the achilles heel in my opinion. 337m on the GPU would have been fine.
Click to expand...

Please enlighten everyone here as to why Xenos is inferior to RSX...
 
PC-Engine said:
Please enlighten everyone here as to why Xenos is inferior to RSX...
Click to expand...

The only area where I see where the RSX has an advantage over XENOS is in ROP fillrate as the RSX has 16 ROPs and XENOS has 8 ROPs. Though that really only helps in having higher resolution display outputs as ROPs basically writes pixels to the framebuffer. The only problem is that you are still limited by graphics bandwidth and the last time I checked the RSX has significantly less graphics bandwidth compared to the Geforce 7800GTX as well as XENOS.

The RSX (assuming it is uncrippled and having all 24 pixel pipelines) at 550Mhz should have a slight theoretical advantage in pixel shaders... but we all know where that notion leads us. This is a subject I am not going to get into right now here...
 
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Bill said:
Which MS actually did, except the EDRAM decision may be the achilles heel in my opinion. 337m on the GPU would have been fine.
Click to expand...
Oh, come on,right now it is a bottleneck issue but in future this will be one of the main strenght of 360; and those 48 shaders: they will be ace.
 
how is it 4month's apart when the Xenos taped out last november of 2004 while we are still waiting for the RSX to tape out...
 
Shogmaster said:
Xenos taped out November of 2004?!?
Click to expand...

Yes.

So did G70. And all the cards of this generation that RSX is a part of.

Remember the 7800 was released in late June 05. They have to tape out some six months prior I gather.

Besides RSX was said to tape out in August. What happened to that idea?

RSX might have a later tapeout, but the assumption is the "guts" of it are G70. They just have to rejigger the memory connectors and such, most likely.

But yeah, if PS3 is ever going to go into production..I think August.

Anyway Allard means the retail product. But there's no way Sony will be on shelves in 4 months, I dont think, so he was being optomistic.
 
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Typically there needs to be roughly 6-8 months between the time a processor "Tapes Out" and the time it can be launched as you need time to test the processor and if problems are found then the design has to be resubmited and retaped and this takes extra time and money (this is what happened to the R520 from ATI as it had to go through several tape outs before they got the issues taken care of). While XENOS taped out in December 2004 the processor only finally made it's way to the XBox360 devkits in July... basically a 7 month difference... and another 4 months for the system to launch for nearly 12 months difference from the point the processor taped out to the point the system launched. This is normal for GPU releases also as typically ATI and nVidia would have new designs taped out

I tend to believe the RSX has taped out already and did so much earlier than the general consensus believes... if we was to use the same scale if Sony was to have the RSX ready for those DevKits on time (December 2005/Janurary 2006) then they should of had the RSX taped out earlier this year in April to July 2005 (or even August 2005 at the ABSOLUTE latest). This in order to give the developers 4 months to meet the launch window of Spring 2006 for Japan for their games. So if the RSX has yet to tape out OR just taped out this month then I tend to believe that there will be no way they will be able to meet that Spring 2006 launch timeframe for the PS3.

Not quite 4 months difference, but more like a 5-7 months difference... but this is not exactly relevant to the discussion of XENOS vs RSX.
 
so he came out of the closet.... :)

well since bill gates himself has a psp (hand delivered by KK himself) ...
 
hey69 said:
so he came out of the closet.... :)

well since bill gates himself has a psp (hand delivered by KK himself) ...
Click to expand...


LOL, and Ballmer has an iPod hand delivered by Steve Jobs.

Well, probably not... ;)

Do MS employees ever use their own products? ;)
 
Bill said:
I have to say, I agree with Sony more than MS.

Look at PSP. For all the dogging, it's basically a big success.

It shows you need to focus on hardware.

Which MS actually did, except the EDRAM decision may be the achilles heel in my opinion. 337m on the GPU would have been fine.

"OPM - You're #1, gonna get complacent?

Hirai - Any business that is successful has this risk, especially the longer you're on top, because you might take this position as a given. You might have tricked yourself into thinking you're there cuz you're a genius. That's bullshit. We're here cause we work hard, and we gotta keep this up to stay in this spot."

That's awesome.
Click to expand...

I think you have to look at the handheld market in relation to the competition though. Isnt the DS outselling the PSP? Would Sony be happy with a similar scenario in the console market, that is, a 'success' yet #2 in the market?

Also, you expect Sony to say "yeah we're gonna be complacent and mail it in this gen." ?
 
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The GameMaster said:
The only area where I see where the RSX has an advantage over XENOS is in ROP fillrate as the RSX has 16 ROPs and XENOS has 8 ROPs. Though that really only helps in having higher resolution display outputs as ROPs basically writes pixels to the framebuffer. The only problem is that you are still limited by graphics bandwidth and the last time I checked the RSX has significantly less graphics bandwidth compared to the Geforce 7800GTX as well as XENOS.

The RSX (assuming it is uncrippled and having all 24 pixel pipelines) at 550Mhz should have a slight theoretical advantage in pixel shaders... but we all know where that notion leads us. This is a subject I am not going to get into right now here...
Click to expand...

The RSX hasn't been unveiled yet. I'm thinking that maybe you are refering to a PC GPU here, perhaps one in which we already know about. If that were true, then what is left to show of the RSX? Why is it still a big secret?

Speculation is great, but it alone is nothing I would take hand in hand.
 
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