Next Gen Graphic Effects Are Amazing (Xbox 360, PS3)

[mckmas8808]

But the solution is rather slow.

Right now it is slow. But the question is would it be slow forever? Would it be slow if it was made on a closed system? Would the boost that the RSX is getting help speed the solution up?

Disclaimer: I honestly don't know the answer to my questions above. I'm actually asking to get a non-biased answer.

 

[ralexand]

I could be wrong but I thought that was what this link HERE was suppose to explain?

Woah! That technique looks incredible. Can the 360 do this and how fast is the implementation if it can?

 

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

Woah! That technique looks incredible. Can the 360 do this and how fast is the implementation if it can?

I recently recall hearing that Ubisoft developed a special algorithm for the Xbox 360 version of King Kong. This new technique allowed them to obtain more detail from their source art without having to go back and make new textures for the Xbox 360 version.

After playing both the Xbox and the Xbox 360 (demo only) versions, I have to say the difference is quite astonishing. The textures on the surface of the rocks and ground are noticeably better than the Xbox version and difference between the character textures is absolutely amazing.

Holt

 

[Skrying]

Woah! That technique looks incredible. Can the 360 do this and how fast is the implementation if it can?

I think there is a way to get something very similair. Not completely the same, but very similair.

As for the speed of the solution. I think the slowness is based around actual architecture and could only be increased a decent amount with a redesign in this area. Its a nifty thing, I just dont think its being done right, right now, for it to be very useful in a fast action game. May a RPG could take use of it though, or something with less demanding FPS needs.

 

[ralexand]

I think there is a way to get something very similair. Not completely the same, but very similair.

As for the speed of the solution. I think the slowness is based around actual architecture and could only be increased a decent amount with a redesign in this area. Its a nifty thing, I just dont think its being done right, right now, for it to be very useful in a fast action game. May a RPG could take use of it though, or something with less demanding FPS needs.

Sorry, can elaborate on what you mean by architecture? Do you mean physical architecture in terms of type of objects?

 

[rosman]

I just have one question. In all footages , i have nocticed that ps3 hdr seems more realistic/precise than first x360 games. Is it due to the FP10/16/32 thing ?
Ive heard that fp10 is used on x360 so as to enabled MSAA as well. With no AA Xenos can render fp16 ? even fp 32 ?
What about rsx ?

 

[ralexand]

I recently recall hearing that Ubisoft developed a special algorithm for the Xbox 360 version of King Kong. This new technique allowed them to obtain more detail from their source art without having to go back and make new textures for the Xbox 360 version.

After playing both the Xbox and the Xbox 360 (demo only) versions, I have to say the difference is quite astonishing. The textures on the surface of the rocks and ground are noticeably better than the Xbox version and difference between the character textures is absolutely amazing.

Holt

Yeah, Kong looks amazing. I had that sense of wow looking at the wet surfaces on the rocks on the demo. Haven't had that since the first time a looked at a high detail texture in Halo1 and it didn't get blurry.

 

[Hardknock]

I just have one question. In all footages , i have nocticed that ps3 hdr seems more realistic/precise than first x360 games. Is it due to the FP10/16/32 thing ?
Ive heard that fp10 is used on x360 so as to enabled MSAA as well. With no AA Xenos can render fp16 ? even fp 32 ?
What about rsx ?

What PS3 footage are you refering to might I ask?

Xenos can do fp10/16/and 32.

 

[ralexand]

I just have one question. In all footages , i have nocticed that ps3 hdr seems more realistic/precise than first x360 games. Is it due to the FP10/16/32 thing ?
Ive heard that fp10 is used on x360 so as to enabled MSAA as well. With no AA Xenos can render fp16 ? even fp 32 ?
What about rsx ?

Not sure about that. The lighting in the getaway demo was amazing. 360 games with good lighting imo are nbalive and pgr3 but the ps3 does seem to have an advantage there but it could have something to do with nvidia implementation of hdr vs. ati's not the level of precision.

 

[Skrying]

Sorry, can elaborate on what you mean by architecture? Do you mean physical architecture in terms of type of objects?

I'm refering to the architecture of the RSX. Since its based on G70 that would give a hit towards not so hot vertex fetch performance.

 

[Skrying]

I have a question: Are not all of these PS3 "demos" really just pre renders? I have a very hard time ever sallowing any pre render.

 

[ultragpu]

i thoguht Heavenly sword on PS3 is the most next gen presentation on a whole package as shown in the realitime trailer. yes, i read the developer's interview here"Dean was it ?" i believe he said the final game would look no less than the demo and run at least 30fps true? neway game like heavenly sword has got it all, including excellent HDR, soft shadows, high poly count, sharp textures and enourmouse amount of characters on screen. the whole presentation is IMHO better than MGS4 although mgs4 is still uberly impressive.

 

[Farid]

So , can G70 use vertex texturing to some implamentations like heavy displacment in kameo/pdz Or it need Cell assist to give the same results ?

There's no displacement mapping at all in PDZ or Kameo, those games use parralax mapping, as already stated a few time in this very thread .
And yes, RSX, or any SM2.0+ class card can do it. It's just (roughly) 20% more costly, in it classical implementation, than normal mapping (Which is not that costly in the first place).

Is it due to the FP10/16/32 thing ?
Ive heard that fp10 is used on x360 so as to enabled MSAA as well. With no AA Xenos can render fp16 ? even fp 32 ?
What about rsx ?

C1 (Xenos), support fp10 and fp16 framebuffer precisions, and if I understood correctly, MSAA works in fp10 mode only. Note that Dave could answer that question with certainty.

I have a question: Are not all of these PS3 "demos" really just pre renders? I have a very hard time ever sallowing any pre render.

...Hmm. First, is this relevant with the topic at hand? No.

In second, please not this stuff again. There's more or less 6 billions topics on the subject, and all finished locked because of flamewar, if you want to read them, the search function can help you.

 

[Skrying]

...Hmm. First, is this relevant with the topic at hand? No.

In second, please not this stuff again. There's more or less 6 billions topics on the subject, and all finished locked because of flamewar, if you want to read them, the search function can help you.

Its relevant as any of the other comparison's to the PS3 in this thread. I find it very funny with some ******s going nuts to point out this, from what I can tell pre renders and CGIs, to the Xbox 360 games. I find it rather funny actually, and I would like to know what it is. As by your answer, there seems to be no fact of the truth available to be found here. As any answers so far are just one side or another saying that it is or it isnt.

I rather not search now, you answered the question easily enough.

 

[Farid]

Its relevant as any of the other comparison's to the PS3 in this thread. I find it very funny with some ******s going nuts to point out this, from what I can tell pre renders and CGIs, to the Xbox 360 games. I find it rather funny actually, and I would like to know what it is. As by your answer, there seems to be no fact of the truth available to be found here. As any answers so far are just one side or another saying that it is or it isnt.

I rather not search now, you answered the question easily enough.

I answered the question asking if all the PS3 games shown until now were CGi video or not?

 

[Skrying]

I answered the question asking if all the PS3 games shown until now were CGi video or not?

Indirectly, yes.

 

[mckmas8808]

Indirectly, yes.

Wow I guess I missed it. Just as Titanio has said earlier doesn't the water in Warhawk look exactly like the water from that Vertex Texturing page on Nvidia's website?

 

[groper]

There's no displacement mapping at all in PDZ or Kameo, those games use parralax mapping, as already stated a few time in this very thread .

But AFAIK parallax map is a kind of displacement map.

A parallax map (also known as a Photonic map, Offset map or Virtual Displacement map) will cause your flat material to look 3D. It is an alternative to the bump mapping and normal mapping techniques. When you look at a parallax mapped material at an angle, the high points will obscure the low points behind them. This is only worthwhile for textures that have depth ranging at least a few centimeters, like deep-set bricks or stone. If you're not sure about using one, then don't bother.

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Creating_Parallax_Maps

 

[Titanio]

Xenos can do fp10/16/and 32.

It supports those framebuffer formats, yes (FP16 anyway, not sure about 32). But that, and supporting HDR effects in those modes easily or at all, are two different things - you need more than just FB format support. I've only ever seen HDR on X360 discussed in terms of FP10 to date - and one would wonder why it is there at all if FP16 or higher was supported, since the eDram would minimise the classic expense of those modes (bandwidth).

I don't think it was ever clarified what HDR precisions, beyond FP10, Xenos supports. Dave's article just moves on from FP10 HDR talk to mention of FP16 framebuffer format support as a side note, but again, that doesn't mean anything on its own in relation to HDR.

And I'd agree that some PS3 games seem to exhibit better lighting/HDR. Particularly in the MGS4 demo, in the darker scenes with the little robot, the contrast has a photographic quality in places. Or dare I say it, a "CG-ish" quality. Many people have previously fallen back on an intangible "it just looks better" explanation re. some PS3 games (if not "omg, teh prerendered!" even for realtime stuff) - and some people have more explicitly highlighted "lighting"/HDR - and I think this might be the reason.

Of course, if someone can highlight a X360 game using FP16 HDR or better, I'll gladly shut up

 

[TurnDragoZeroV2G]

Key word being "virtual." True displacement mapping involves actually displacing vertexes according to a (vertex) texture lookup rather than faking it in pixel shaders.