Merrick: Revolution Specs probably will never be released

[Powderkeg]

Well, I'm old enough to have children, and as someone who owned way back to the NES and C64, I can tell you I didn't care diddly-squat about the specs back then, and my only interest now has to do with an interest in business and technology. Hardly because it effects my gaming habits.

You didn't care about the specs when you were a child so now that your grown and a parent that means other parents don't care about specs now?

Do you have a problem with logical thinking? Or is it a touch of fanyoungmanism? Your name doesn't exactly suggest an open mind or rational discussion in regards to consoles you know.

If you live in a world where everyone who goes to the store bases the majority of their decision on which console has which specs, then yes - I'm living ina different world than you.

Clearly. You live in a world where everyone is apparently incredibly stupid and are purely impulse buyers who don't care about their money or what they spend it on. If it looks good at the moment, buy it, and they don't even care what they are buying.

That's not earth. Don't know what planet it is, but it's certainly not this one.

As rarely as I find myself in a games store, I do notice people's behavior - and not once in my life have I ever heard someone inquiring about power or looking at a box for specs.

Try walking into any major retailer and see if you can find someone who is comparitive shipping for any product that doesn't compare what they are shopping for.

People in game stores typically know exactly what they want before they walk in, but the vast majority of game consoles are sold through major retailers like Walmart or Best Buy, not gaming stores.

Let me ask you, if PS3 is more powerful than 360, are you jumping ship?

I plan on buying both, so which ship would I be jumping from/to?

Unlike you, I am not a fanyoungman of a particular system, and I don't feel the need to defend it even against someone who is agreing with me, such as you did by telling me I was wrong when I agreed that it looked like Nvidia and Sony had been working for 2 years on RSX and spent a significant amount of R&D on the project. There I was agreeing with Sony and Nvidia reps, and you were telling me I was wrong, mostly because you are so emotionally attached to your fanyoungmanism that you are incapable of being rational.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Look, you believe what you want. I'm not going to shatter your delusions.

But a console is hardware, and people who compare will compare the hardware. They will look at the big expensive box and see what is written on it and compare it to their competition. Maybe not in your world, but here on earth that's how it works for anyone who is indecisive in a significant product purchase.

I guarantee you anyone who isn't already a Nintendo fan will compare what is written on the PS3, 360, and Revolution boxes, and if a big spec chart is missing from Nintendo's, they will notice, and they will care. People don't like getting ripped off, and when you hide something like hardware specs they tend not to feel comfortable.

You are an established Nintendo fan. One of a small minority of the console gaming market and an even smaller minority among non-gamers. The only ones who think like you are also established Nintendo fans, and most of you already own a Gamecube so we've already got a good idea of your numbers in the grand scheme of things.

You've been living in the geek world for far too long. Out of all my friends (and yeah, I have more than 3 ), I'm the only person who knows how much RAM is in the Xbox, what clockspeed the Flipper runs at, and how many pipelines are in the GS (yes, that's an anecdote, but my experience is typical). Casual gamers don't know these things, and they don't seem to care. I also didn't notice a "big spec chart" on the boxes for my Xbox, Cube, DS, SNES, and N64. If there were any specs there, they were small. Even the giant Xbox 360 poster in the local Gamestop doesn't have any specs on it.

The $150 PS2 continues to outsell the $150 Xbox despite having far inferior specs and lacking a hard drive. It also blows away the $99 GameCube, which also has superior specs. Clearly, these spec addicts don't make up a large portion of the market, or maybe Xbox would have had better sales in its first 2 years.

The people who buy consoles based on spec won't be buying Revolution anyway. That's a done deal. Either way, they've lost you as a customer, and publishing a spec sheet doesn't change that. However, publishing low specs does generate negative buzz. Nintendo doesn't need "Oh man, it's only 1/10 as powerful as 360, the specs say so!" floating around out there. They need to keep any negative spec buzz down as low as possible. Why generate negative buzz among your target audience in order to satisfy someone who won't buy your product anyway?

 

[Carl B]

You didn't care about the specs when you were a child so now that your grown and a parent that means other parents don't care about specs now?

Do you have a problem with logical thinking? Or is it a touch of fanyoungmanism? Your name doesn't exactly suggest an open mind or rational discussion in regards to consoles you know.



Clearly. You live in a world where everyone is apparently incredibly stupid and are purely impulse buyers who don't care about their money or what they spend it on. If it looks good at the moment, buy it, and they don't even care what they are buying.

That's not earth. Don't know what planet it is, but it's certainly not this one.



Try walking into any major retailer and see if you can find someone who is comparitive shipping for any product that doesn't compare what they are shopping for.

People in game stores typically know exactly what they want before they walk in, but the vast majority of game consoles are sold through major retailers like Walmart or Best Buy, not gaming stores.



I plan on buying both, so which ship would I be jumping from/to?

Unlike you, I am not a fanyoungman of a particular system, and I don't feel the need to defend it even against someone who is agreing with me, such as you did by telling me I was wrong when I agreed that it looked like Nvidia and Sony had been working for 2 years on RSX and spent a significant amount of R&D on the project. There I was agreeing with Sony and Nvidia reps, and you were telling me I was wrong, mostly because you are so emotionally attached to your fanyoungmanism that you are incapable of being rational.

LOL, I like your 'fanyoungman' thing by the way - the fact that you can invent such a word captures your character perfectly.

Yeah my name is regretable, no doubt. But you should know better than to bring it up, since I'm no 'fanyoungman.' Even if (successfully) I was pointing out reasons to believe that NVidia/Sony collaboration had begun before December 2004.

Listen Powderkeg, consoles are for games. Just like you buy a movie based on the content and not the level of the CG or special effects contained within. (who knows with you though) If a game appeals to a certain buyer, they will likely purchase the system that allows them to play the game they like. Is that concept so hard for you? Knowing DS is weaker than PSP hasn't ended it's career, do you agree?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Ingedients are an absolute basis of comparison. Do you go into a restraunt and order food without knowing or caring about what food you just ordered? Ever order a steak and not specify how you wanted it cooked? How do you decide which entree to get if you don't compare what each one is made of?

[I've ordered plenty of meals without knowing how they're cooked. Last time I'was in a restaurant I ordered Sea Bream. It came with a very nice sauce (I've no idea what the ingredients are) and was very nicely cooked (don't know how. Roasted? What temperature? How long? Steamed? Under pressure?). I don't know how much it weighed, where it was caught, how it was prepared, the percentage probability of a bone still being present..there's millions of specs that I knoew nothing about. I read the menu that gave an overall impression of what to expect, and I took the chance to be surprised.

I definitely look at what they are made of, how well they are made, what's included in the box, and what do the alternatives provide.

That's different to the specs. When you want a soft fluffy toy, do you find the one that's soft and fluffy by touching it and squeezing it, or by looking at numbers that define how soft and fluffy it is?

Would you consider 16:9 or 4:3 aspect ratio a spec? Would you buy a DVD without knowing which of those the movie is in?

That's the technical specs of the media, telling me how it'll look. I was asking if you choose a FILM (not the media it's recorded on) by the specs?

It seems you are one of those people who places emphasis on statistics and tends to take a very logical approach to decision making. That's well and good, but you're in the minority if that's the case. Most people make decisions in very different ways and the numbers that define various characteristics to the scientific analytical brains go mostly overlooked. People buy a dog based on the breed they like - what it looks like. They don't lok up for longevitiy, likelihood of diseases, of genetic breed related problems, and choose a dog they like based SOLELY on those specs. They choose clothes they like the look of, without seeing what it's made of, how long it will last, how quickly it will fade. Specs sheets can be used to sway people. Given two similar products use of figures can make the difference. I've known people buy a 1 GHz Pentium over a 800 MHz K6 because the number was bigger and they know enough to know bigger numbers=faster, but not that the numerical relations between different families of processors makes inter-family comparisons more complex than just a numbers game. But when a persons happy with something based on a visceral criteria, most people don't look for a numerical evaluation for the confidence to commit. If people like what they see of the Revolution in store, on screenshots and movies and box-art, they don't need ot know the numbers. They won't care to find out the numbers. They don't need confirmation that the game looks good 'because Revolution can handle 500 million vertices a second and runs at 3 GHz and has 3 processors running in parallel with 1T technology throughout.' Just seeing the game and liking it is enough.

The problem with stats is in marketting where if you compare two products it has an impact. If Nintendo show side-by-side with PS3 a game that looks just as good, and then a sheet of paper showing the numbers are half the size, people will likely go by the deciding factor (assuming no brand awareness etc.) which is buying PS3 means getting more numbers and a more powerful console. If Nintendo show unique fun games that look good and are not available on PS3, all the numbers in the world won't make any difference. Just like anyone wanting to play Nintendogs doesn't give a hoot what the Specs of DS are, nor that side-by-side with PSP the DS's specs are lower.

 

[Rodéric]

I can tell you people buy products over brand reputation, or they just come in and ask the reseller what console fit their gaming style, and which have the most games of their favorite genre, they don't care about specs at all.

Is it well known ?
Is it cute ?
Does it have lots of games ?
Does it have great games or franchises ?
Does it have good games that suite my gaming style ?
Does it have lots of games in my favorite genre ?
How does it compare in all these respects plus price to other products ?

With Revolution we might see "How does the pad work ?" type of question coming.


BTW Powderkeg we are well aware that you HATE Nintendo &/| the Revolution, so just give your opinion once, and stop derailing all threads about Nintendo or the Revolution.

 

[StefanS]

This is just ridiculous. Does anyone expect Nintendo to release a FLOPS number of the Revolution when they're aiming at 480p, while the competitors aim at 720p, 1080p respectively. Their numbers would naturally look inferior to X360 and PS3 even when they would still offer comparable graphics at 480p. They'd only shoot themselves in the foot.

BTW, does anyone remember the discussion about FLOPS this gen? MS claimed their Xbox would deliver 125GFLOPS. In comparison GCN delivered about 25GFLOPS, which was in the range of the PS2. Now, could any sane person claim that the Xbox looked 5times better than PS2 or GCN? Do you really think the average consumer went to next shop and bought the console that offered the most FLOPS?

 

[Clashman]

There's a couple tactics that have been taken in the past. Sometimes overwhelming your competition with paper specs works quite well, (see the Dreamcast vs PS2), sometimes it doesn't (see Xbox vs PS2). Personally, I think Nintendo is planning on copying Apple's strategy with the ipod and relying on style and perceptions of innovation to sell their product. The ipod was and is in many ways inferior to many of it's competitors when it comes to paper specs, but has thus far had an edge when it comes to style which has propelled it above and beyond the competition. Whether this kind of strategy would work with console gaming is something I'm not completely certain of, as console gaming doesn't necessarily function on the same mindset as the MP3 player market. Then again, Nintendo's design choices are seen as an attempt to expand beyond the traditional games-playing market, which wouldn't be necessarily as "tech-oriented" as the current one. We'll see how it works, I personally think I'll have to see it in action before I make up my mind.

 

[fulcizombie]

Wow that's pathetic even for current nintendo's standards.

I remember the n64 pre-launch days when Howard Linkoln wouldn't shut up about the n64 specs and how it was "a 64bti machine that shouldn't be compared to 32 bit machines.How do times change!Nintendo was cutting edge at Snes and N64 days and now nintendo fans get excited about playing...Nes&Snes games on a console that will be released in 2006!!!

It seems that the revolution's specs are worse that most suspected they would be.
Oh well Nintendo is loosing half of its user base with every console gen anyway......

 

[GwymWeepa]

What's the point of releasing specs other than to appease us nerds? The graphics will look fine at 480p, there, end of story. Releasing specs of a machine that has already been admitted to being inferior will only cast a negative shadow on the system and kill a huge chunk of hype.

 

[Reznor007]

Most people truly don't care about specs. Look at Bose speakers, they are considered by the general public to be great, yet they don't put any actual speaker specs on the box or anywhere on their site. I think they are the only large speaker company to not post specs actually.

Atari didn't get far from pushing the "64bit-ness" of the Jaguar did they?

What about Sega's full color Game Gear compared to monochrome Gameboy?

What about N64's power over PS1?

 

[Titanio]

I could have guessed as much. IIRC, Nintendo considered not releasing specs for Gamecube at the time, so I figured it was very likely they'd actually not do so this time around.

As long as the games look the part, or play the part more importantly I suppose, very few are going to care. Nintendo fans aren't going to care, and the average punter on the street isn't going to be aware of it.

That said, this will probably be the biggest "prize" for Nintendo editors everywhere, and I'd expect leaks

 

[Inane_Dork]

I dislike it. You buy hardware, it's your right to know what it can do. If Nintendo believes power is not that relevant anymore, fine. But don't force your belief on everyone else.

And if the public rejects the Rev because its specs are so much lower than competitors', then I guess Nintendo doesn't have a bead on consumer interest after all. Yeah, it may be bad for gaming, but it would be Nintendo's fault.

 

[pc999]

I really doubt this will affect their rating, most people dont even care about the spec of their new PC, plus they only need to show a "equal" ss from FIFA or something like on the back of the box and then try to explain why one console having 3X the power show the same and still is "better" to a person with a normal TV. The specs are nice for us but for normal people (and beyond this I think that there will be even amung us (me for example) less people how care about raw specs, because of the difference of rez) see the "specs" in the ss at back of the game or in a movie if the difference is not imediate then there is no difference in "specs" for them is all that matters in terms of specs (plus the price).

 

[Almasy]

Oh pur-leeeezzzzz Yeah, I was looking at the Revolution's controller and getting really excited about the types of games I'd be able to play, and in the store they had a demo that looked realy good. Maybe not as sharp as the XB360 on it's HD screen but it looked good anyway (and didn't have wierd red triangles on it ). And the game was really fun - a sword fighting thing. I loved it, and my kids loved it too. Most fun I'd had in ages. I was almost sold, and then I saw there wasn't a spec chart. What, no specs chart?! So I'm not going to buy it. Plain and simple. If they can't provide numbers then forget it. What kind of idiot thinks I'm going to buy a games console to play games by providing fun demo games but no numbers chart?

Oh, please, we all know you love Revolution, but nobody should defend Nintendo´s actions, which we can all agree that are done because their hardware is inferior enough to make a direct comparison a bad idea.

As a consumer, you have the right (or at least should) to know what lies inside of what you´re buying. No ifs or buts about it, those kind of specifications SHOULD be easily available on the packaging and/or official website if the consumer wishes to know. It´s not a matter of importance, it´s a matter of consumer rights. I´ve had enough of ridiculous Nintendo fans and their tripe to hear it all over again in beyond3d of all places.

 

[darkblu]

Oh, please, we all know you love Revolution, but nobody should defend Nintendo´s actions, which we can all agree that are done because their hardware is inferior enough to make a direct comparison a bad idea.

As a consumer, you have the right (or at least should) to know what lies inside of what you´re buying. No ifs or buts about it, those kind of specifications SHOULD be easily available on the packaging and/or official website if the consumer wishes to know. It´s not a matter of importance, it´s a matter of consumer rights. I´ve had enough of ridiculous Nintendo fans and their tripe to hear it all over again in beyond3d of all places.

Almasy, you sure you didn't mean to begin your 2nd paragraph with 'as a nintendo basher'?

oh, and next time you play a game on your 'open-spec' console don't forget to keep an eye on the performance analyzer panel on the front of the console to see how much of those flops actually get utilized at each and every moment.

pathetic.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Oh, please, we all know you love Revolution

Really? First I knew about my love for Revolution!!

, but nobody should defend Nintendo´s actions, which we can all agree that are done because their hardware is inferior enough to make a direct comparison a bad idea.

Which I've NEVER disputed. Hence my first post in this thread ...
This is the console equivalent of taking the Fifth. "We refuse to disclose the specs of our machine on the grounds we will thus prove it's not as powerful as the rivals."

As a consumer, you have the right (or at least should) to know what lies inside of what you´re buying. No ifs or buts about it, those kind of specifications SHOULD be easily available on the packaging and/or official website if the consumer wishes to know. It´s not a matter of importance, it´s a matter of consumer rights.

What utter crock! You've a right (depending on your national laws) to a product that does what it's supposed to do. If Rev doesn't provide fun entertaining games you can take it back to the store for a refund. There's no law AFAIK whatsoever on any country on this planet saying specs or explanations of how the technology of a device works needs to be included. Honestly! How many of you refused to buy a DVD player because the brochure didn't list RAMDAC speeds and memory amounts? Or pin counts on the IO chip? No-one's forcing you to buy it. If you aren't comfortable buying a device without first seeing a bullet-point summary of it's contents you don't have to. For everyone else, if they like what they see on the screen that's all they need for an informed decision. You don't need to know the internal workings of a console to decide whether to buy it or not. I didn't when I bought PS2. I saw games I liked, had friends with one, so bought it long before I knew it had two VUs etc. There no legal nor natural right for me to deamand to be informed of all the inner workings (some of which may be trade secrets, though unlikely in this industry) and in most people not the slightest curiosity to know either.

Anyhow, we're at an impass with people expressing POV's here over and over. Just to set the record straight on my position, I expect Nintendo are doing this to 'push to the back' the idea that they have a lesser powered console, and I don't think it matters in the least that they don't have those specs available. If their machine is that seriously unpowered it shows ont he TV screen no amount of concealing specs will change that. At the end of the day it's only what's seen on screen and what people say to their friends about the machine that matters. How it works is irrelevant. And I'll stop repeating myself now.

 

[Rodéric]

Everyone be fair, or I'll just close that thread.

Like it or not, express your opinion just once, there's NO way to argue about opinions.

 

[Almasy]

Almasy, you sure you didn't mean to begin your 2nd paragraph with 'as a nintendo basher'?

oh, and next time you play a game on your 'open-spec' console don't forget to keep an eye on the performance analyzer panel on the front of the console to see how much of those flops actually get utilized at each and every moment.

pathetic.

Not a performance analizer, but at least I know at what speed my console´s CPUs and GPUs run at, what kind of polygon performance they can achieve, among other aspects. Nintendo´s machine will be inferior enough to the point that they don´t want specs to be known, and instead of being questioned suddenly they become the champions of gaming...seriously, what´s going on inside Nintendo fan´s heads??

Really? First I knew about my love for Revolution!!

Well, then you haven´t been paying attention to what yourself have written in recent Revolution discussions.

What utter crock! You've a right (depending on your national laws) to a product that does what it's supposed to do. If Rev doesn't provide fun entertaining games you can take it back to the store for a refund. There's no law AFAIK whatsoever on any country on this planet saying specs or explanations of how the technology of a device works needs to be included.

Honestly! How many of you refused to buy a DVD player because the brochure didn't list RAMDAC speeds and memory amounts? Or pin counts on the IO chip? No-one's forcing you to buy it. If you aren't comfortable buying a device without first seeing a bullet-point summary of it's contents you don't have to. For everyone else, if they like what they see on the screen that's all they need for an informed decision. You don't need to know the internal workings of a console to decide whether to buy it or not. I didn't when I bought PS2. I saw games I liked, had friends with one, so bought it long before I knew it had two VUs etc. There no legal nor natural right for me to deamand to be informed of all the inner workings (some of which may be trade secrets, though unlikely in this industry) and in most people not the slightest curiosity to know either.

Fortunately(heh) I´m not a lawyer, so I´m not very familiar on international laws, however, as a consumer, I SHOULD be able to see a console´s specs if I want to. On every product available it happens, if I want to buy a set of speakers, I want to know their power, if I´m looking for a car, the minimum I need to know is par, HP, if it´s a V4 or a V6. Even on your DVD example, a consumer should have the benefit of information concerning what kinds of outputs a DVD player has, what kinds of features and such.

It´s the same with consoles, it´s a way to provide consumers information to make an informed decision, if the consumer wishes to use that information or not is an entirely different matter. If you mindlessly got a PS2, fine, that was how you took your decision, but others might want to use more information to get one.

Bottomline is, Revolution will have a CPU and a GPU, and consumers have the right to know at least minimum specs on their capabilities, at the very, very, very least frequency of both, ammount of memory and pixel and vertex pipes. That kind of information is what we, consumers, should ask for, minimum...of course, that, as long as you are not a Nintendo fan.

 

[darkblu]

Ingenu, how about closing this pathetic thread?

 

[Almasy]

Ingenu, how about closing this pathetic thread?

Well, it would be in a better state if you didn´t bother to post such things.