R520 benchmarks - Hardware Analysis

[BRiT]

Well? Out with it already. Quit telling us about how much it will change things and just present it already.

Maybe he's trying to start it off with a countdown and marketting slogan of "It'll change the world. Are you ready?".

 

[Firefox]

There is. You have to have been here for 10 days, 10 posts, and good behavior (i.e. you haven't been dinged in your default reputation) to get it.

Thanx for the info, but I guess I'll be waiting for that edit button quite a while longer because I'm not making myself very popular here by not condemning Sander just yet... ah well, I guess that's what you get for playing "devils advocate" right

I really dont think that you can compare the 2 sides in this. Sander stepped both feet into this knowing where it would lead. ATi have not been at war with him at all. They have been far more reserved than they have the right too. Aside from a couple of quotes there has been nothing. I dont understand how that makes it a war.

I wonder if he would still have stepped in if he really knew how this would turn out
Furthermore I do remember some very sharp quotes from ATi on R3D and DH attacking both the benches and the (credibility of the) person... the moment things are being played out on a personal level (on both sides in this case), I wouldn't call it just an "argument" anymore.

You want evidence? There you go. He's ignored every call to release his methodology. If you're trying to convince people that you're right, or at least the maligned party, that should be the first thing you do. But he hasn't, which leads me to believe he's hiding something.

Not disclosing the details is no actual evidence that the info itself is a lie. Indeed, it doesn't make his case strong at all, questionable at best, but there is no evidence to counter his claims just yet.
And hopefully he'll finally clear that up in his next post.

Three seems wrong because I can't imagine driver bugs (this close to launch) or clock variances that would cause results like he was getting. Four is certainly wrong; see my previous comments regarding X850XTPE versus Pro scores.

Maybe, but we know nothing about the hardware/boardrevison... besides who is talking about bugs... with bios and driver tweaks - and an entire engineering team (if not more) on it - quite a lot of performance can be gained, even in a few weeks.

Sander I'm gonna be eating that popcorn and drinking my coffee while reading your defense tomorrow 'couse I'm gonna get some sleep now... it's 5AM here :/
And no joke, this had better be good

 

[Tim Murray]

Maybe, but we know nothing about the hardware/boardrevison... besides who is talking about bugs... with bios and driver tweaks - and an entire engineering team (if not more) on it - quite a lot of performance can be gained, even in a few weeks.

Well, considering Andrzej (the man with the name I will never spell correctly without a silly amount of effort) said "boards will be in the hands of press in under two weeks," I doubt that too.

 

[Arty]

Sander I'm gonna be eating that popcorn and drinking my coffee while reading your defense tomorrow 'couse I'm gonna get some sleep now... it's 5AM here :/
And no joke, this had better be good

My large bag of popcorn ran out and I'm also hitting the bed now. Good night all.

 

[Firefox]

Well, considering Andrzej (the man with the name I will never spell correctly without a silly amount of effort) said "boards will be in the hands of press in under two weeks," I doubt that too.

That is really some name isn't it... I've been copying it all this time because I constantly forget how to spell it

Back ontopic: If we hypotheticly state the test board and drivers were 2 weeks old when the tests were run, ATi still has/had a month from that point to make ajustments... and that is quite some time to perfect things.
It also surprises me that Sander overlooked this (if he did), because even if those figures were correct say 2,5 weeks ago, they will be different at release - in a positive way that is...

Anyway, I'll stop speculating and get some sleep now. I hope/assume a lot of this will be disclosed in Sanders next post.
Good night all

 

[Tim Murray]

Back ontopic: If we hypotheticly state the test board and drivers were 2 weeks old when the tests were run, ATi still has/had a month from that point to make ajustments... and that is quite some time to perfect things.
It also surprises me that Sander overlooked this (if he did), because even if those figures were correct say 2,5 weeks ago, they will be different at release - in a positive way that is...

If they were true, I wouldn't think they're over a day old. After all, if someone said, "Here! R520 benches! And you're not under NDA or anything like that!" to me and I had a site, you'd better believe I'd post them instantly...

... I'd just post the scores as rumors and include the testing methodology, too.

 

[Pete]

Thanks to both men for taking the time to expand in B3D (Andrzej especially for highlighting and bolding the important bits ). I'm still curious what prompted the AIB to share, and still skeptical about launch/availability dates and quantities. The drama is stealing the show from the numbers, however, so I'm going to stop stoking this little fire.

I'll just add that it's funny to think the B3D forums are big enough that someone copied Andrzej's first reply from another forum and posted it in a separate B3D thread--without realizing it originated at B3D.

 

[BRiT]

If we hypotheticly state the test board and drivers were 2 weeks old when the tests were run

I like this one better... What if we hypothetically state the test boards were really X1600 Pros and X1600 XTs?

 

[ChrisRay]

You know whats sad? Despite the drama factor of this. It is entirely uninteresting. I dont take alot of stock in either what ATI or Sander says. In the end it really doesnt matter what either says. Because there is nothing new that we have learned. Nothing that can be cross examined. And simply no way to tell who is right and who is wrong. The actual net result of all this drama has gained everyone absolutely zero knowledge and just a bunch of senseless drama.

 

[gkar1]

You know whats sad? Despite the drama factor of this. It is entirely uninteresting. I dont take alot of stock in either what ATI or Sander says. In the end it really doesnt matter what either says. Because there is nothing new that we have learned. Nothing that can be cross examined. And simply no way to tell who is right and who is wrong. The actual net result of all this drama has gained everyone absolutely zero knowledge and just a bunch of senseless drama.

Despite your efforts to downplay it, we actually have learned that ATI's upcoming parts will outperform whatever nv has...
The drama is isolated to mister nobody crying wah wah from his little website because the big bad IHV didnt invite his whiny ass to a tech day.
ATI defending itself as it is their right to do so when slander is thrown about is only to be expected.

 

[ChrisRay]

I'm not sure how you have learned that. This is a he said situation. Both sides are throwing stones. None of the information available here is what I'd call close to reliable or something I'd take to the bank. Ratchet said it best. "If a PR rep told me the sky was blue. I'd check myself". Same goes for anything Sander has said up to this point. Neither perspective has gained any credibility with me. However Sander has lost some with me.

 

[nelg]

I'm still curious what prompted the AIB to share, and still skeptical about launch/availability dates and quantities.

It was a sting set up between PC partner and ATI.

Also, we internally prepared for the 'dummy out of the pram do you know who I am I am very important I am how dare you treat me like this' scenario about 2 weeks ago

 

[Himself]

Well, at least this goes to show that there is still some life in video card enthusiasm.. And that it's not only women that like a good scandal and gossip..

Bottom line, ATI got a new card coming out that is SM3 capable, the highest of the high end version will either be faster or slower in game X, and not in game Y, it will be priced out of the range of many. What's so exciting?

Did we suddenly learn that some web sites aren't super technical and objective? Surely that's not news..

Big yawn for me..

 

[seeker010]

Well, at least this goes to show that there is still some life in video card enthusiasm.. And that it's not only women that like a good scandal and gossip..

Bottom line, ATI got a new card coming out that is SM3 capable, the highest of the high end version will either be faster or slower in game X, and not in game Y, it will be priced out of the range of many. What's so exciting?

Did we suddenly learn that some web sites aren't super technical and objective? Surely that's not news..

Big yawn for me..

I didn't think it was possible. you summarized the entire story of R520 in one post. how typical of you

 

[Geo]

You know whats sad? Despite the drama factor of this. It is entirely uninteresting. . .

Is someone making you be here against your will? Who is this mean person?

 

[Fred da Roza]

John,

Rest assured I won't be repeating myself again but will be offering full disclosure on a lot of issues. But I'm supportive of the suggestion of the other gentleman, it might be a good idea to get the popcorn out and get a fresh pot of coffee ready, this won't be a single paragraph reply I'm afraid.

Regards,

Sander Sassen
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com

Well Sander clearly your claim that your exposed e-mail was a joke was not true. Obviously, with the numerous unfriendly e-mail exchanges you are suggesting you will release, your last e-mail was a threat to get what you demanded.

All I can say now is that I had to correct quite a few of Andrzej's ‘inaccuracies’ which I’ve now set in stone by providing full transcripts of emails or quotes from emails which do put the majority of his comments in a rather different light, but there simply is no getting around the truth I’m afraid.

As far as releasing "quotes from emails", I suggest if you do release them you release the whole e-mail. Your characterization of your comments on the last e-mail lacks a certain credibility.

 

[Smurfie]

Seriously, in support of ChrisRay, what's really with this pissing contest?

Nothing can be proven definitely. Neither Andrzej nor Sanders can give us definite proof of whether the benchmarks are real. All we have are 2 men's words. Is everyone that stuck in their camp that either makes them insecure or swollen in their heads that we cannot just wait a couple of weeks for the truth?

All this drama that everyone here is generating, is doing nothing more than raising the stakes to the point that when something is going to fall, boy will it make the loudest thud in the most remote forest possible.

 

[rwolf]

You know whats sad? Despite the drama factor of this. It is entirely uninteresting. I dont take alot of stock in either what ATI or Sander says. In the end it really doesnt matter what either says. Because there is nothing new that we have learned. Nothing that can be cross examined. And simply no way to tell who is right and who is wrong. The actual net result of all this drama has gained everyone absolutely zero knowledge and just a bunch of senseless drama.

Well at least I now know that the R520 is not a dog and is in fact a smoker. :smile:

I can't wait to see it.

 

[Razor1]

Seriously, in support of ChrisRay, what's really with this pissing contest?

Nothing can be proven definitely. Neither Andrzej nor Sanders can give us definite proof of whether the benchmarks are real. All we have are 2 men's words. Is everyone that stuck in their camp that either makes them insecure or swollen in their heads that we cannot just wait a couple of weeks for the truth?

All this drama that everyone here is generating, is doing nothing more than raising the stakes to the point that when something is going to fall, boy will it make the loudest thud in the most remote forest possible.

Well said,

I still have some belief in Sander's benchmarks, I just can't see how a person can damage thier rep so badly unless its out of total stupidity.

Well at least I now know that the R520 is not a dog and is in fact a smoker. :smile:

I can't wait to see it.

It will be a very nice card

 

[seahawk]

A very interesting discussion. Although I believe that the HA benchmarks are not right, it brought us some direct information about the performance of the R520 and that says that it will be suprior, as it was ti be expected. That is good news.