Nintendo Revolution Controller Revealed
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Powderkeg said:
But why would you need to be perfectly still? I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Most of the stuff you just listed can be remedied by pausing the game. What do you think the pause function is for? In fact that's what I usually do when I need to put the controller aside. I either turn my wireless controller off to save the batteries while I go do something or I leave it on and just set it on a table both after pausing the game depending on if I'm in the middle of a fight or race or something like that. Nintendo could easily map a "release" function to a certain button press or combination similar to a soft reset from a controller. When you "release" the controller from the game it's effectively on "hold" where any movement will not register while it's on "hold". In fact a good old fashioned "pause" function would do the exact same thing.
Powderkeg said:
I've shot many real guns and the reason why you need to hold steady is because you're shootng at a target that's far away. If the target is right in front of you like a TV for example you don't need to hold it that steady. Light gun games were not designed for professional marksmen.
Have you ever played HoTD for DC with a light gun? Do you know what's in the options menu? If you haven't then do it first then come back here to continue your weak argument.
Why wouldn't you be able to? A seesaw can tilt can't it? Last time I checked a seesaw doesn't float in air. As for moving up/down, if it's required then it's because of the type of game that's requiring it.
Have you seen the video clip that shows what types of games this controller would be suited for? Tell me which of those games need the precision and fine motor skills of a surgeon. The only type of game that would need that much fine control is...OMG a surgical game!!! Aren't surgical games supposed to be very dexteriously challenging? Ever played Operation?
High sensitivity is the genius behind this controller. You can always tone down sensitivity through software in any number of ways.
And I see you keep parroting the same moot point. Can you see a single pixel from your game playing position? Why would you even need to let a lone be able to keep aim at it? Friggen ABSURD!!! Get back to me when you can aim at a target using your analog thumbstick controller as fast and accurate as I can using a pointer or heck even a oldschool light gun.
I think you are the one who's lying to himself. How do surgeons and dentists hold thier tools? Do they hold it with their fists? How did that guy on that video hold the controller in that dentist game?
Per pixel precision?
Which console controller gives you per pixel control and which game required it?
According to your logic the DS with it's nonconventional touchscreen and stylus input would've not gotten any support. Look at how it's selling right now compared to a conventional controller based PSP with better graphics, bigger better screen and much more powerful processors. You act like every game coming to Revolution needs to use this new input method.
I think that's one of the uses for this new controller. It gives you good mobility with left hand with fast accurate aiming with the right. And yes the built-in rumble will be used the same way the rumble in the DC lightguns were used. In the past you only had a light gun and would not have been able to move very well since the control pad was also on the gun. That's why light gun games stayed on rails, however, that's about to change.
I think he's trying too hard to put down a controller that he doesn't even know anything about just like he tried futily to prove you can't pack a slim DVD drive, highend GPU and CPU into a small enclosure and have it sufficiently cooled.
Wavebird. I really wish Nintendo would get off their @sses and release a Wavebird with rumble.
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We have so many people resistant to change here that they look for every possible reason for it not to work. The thing is the upcoming gen is basically the same thing as the last one with prettier pictures. All you're getting is the same games with +1 version numbers stuck on. Games havent changed in ten years.
Try not to think of traditional software when looking for flaws in the controller, think of entire games being designed around the controller itself i.e. deeper gameplay, fewer more meaningful fights,more suspense, more intricate puzzles, exploration and thought-work. As opposed to heavy emphasis on action that we're used to. Current games you're basically fighting hordes from to start to finish with little meaning.
Try not to think of traditional software when looking for flaws in the controller, think of entire games being designed around the controller itself i.e. deeper gameplay, fewer more meaningful fights,more suspense, more intricate puzzles, exploration and thought-work. As opposed to heavy emphasis on action that we're used to. Current games you're basically fighting hordes from to start to finish with little meaning.
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JarrodKing
Newcomer
There are an equal number of people on here that are ready to throw all scientific and previous gaming experience out the window and believe and follow Nintendo's PR department anywhere and everywhere on this subject. Come on! One video is just actors holding the controller with no screen shown and sound effects added!!! My God, they could be holding a rubber chicken or a flashlight and the video would be exactly the same. I am not trying to be pessimistic. I'm just trying to use logic and reason to look at what they are saying will happen. Nintendo can technologically innovate all they want, but some basics physics and human anatomy problems cannot be glossed over so easily and should be discussed on this technical forum, I would hope. It should be debated just like a company's dubious new video card claims would be.
The IGN report that says they needed to use two hands gives credence to a view that maybe this isn't the panacea for all game control that the rabid fans are trying to make it. I think this product will work great for large movements, like whether you are slashing your arm in a sword-swinging type motion or detecting large turns. But it is fine movement and precision, which contrary to what you say uCOM-4, should be needed in nearly any quality game, which I am unsure of with this controller. Simply making Mario walk and stop before a hole and fight enemies would take very fine precision that may not be possible from an unsupported human hand and this controller, without mushy response and wide auto-aiming type features. If fine control is not required by the game, then I'm afraid we are going down the road to "Dragon's Lair" type games which more closely resemble movies than games. I think consumers prefer games where the character motions precisely reflect what they are doing with their controllers. I think this is a large source of our immersion in the game.
Sometimes I think some of these positive-without-any-hesitation type comments have to be from Nintendo PR employees' astroturfing efforts here and elsewhere. I mean it doesn't mean I hate Nintendo to just simply ask reasonable, scientific questions.
The fuel that drives my skepticism is my brother's old Power Glove and our experiences with it. You can say this is very different and you are right, but there are many, many similarities. Using the Glove, we finally had to come to the sad conclusion that just because you COULD control Mario with it didn't mean it was fun. It took 100% concentration on the interface at all times. We wanted it to be great- it was marketed that way and the Nintendo movie "The Wizard" showed it as being that way. But it just wasn't fun. Why would you want to control Mario with your arm? What was fun about Mario was the game itself, the running, the jumping, etc. all based on the split second accuracy and precision granted by the controller. The only thing we eventually ever used on the glove was the functioning controller Nintendo stuck on top of it. Putting up with the delays and imprecision in the glove became too much trouble. That's my point; I just hope the use of the new Revolution's controller doesn't become such a hassle that people just don't play Nintendo games anymore at all or worse yet, we have games such as the Glove's Super Glove Ball, which are made specifically for the controller and utterly insipid.
I do hope I'm wrong on some of these points and the controller works perfectly. Gaming could use new life; the games are becoming repetitive. Let us hope that the end result is more and exciting new gaming types, not just an old dusty Revolution in the closet next to our Power Glove.
<center>
<img src="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imageowerglovead.jpg" border="0" alt="" />
<img src="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Supergloveball.GIF" border="0" alt="" />
</center>
The IGN report that says they needed to use two hands gives credence to a view that maybe this isn't the panacea for all game control that the rabid fans are trying to make it. I think this product will work great for large movements, like whether you are slashing your arm in a sword-swinging type motion or detecting large turns. But it is fine movement and precision, which contrary to what you say uCOM-4, should be needed in nearly any quality game, which I am unsure of with this controller. Simply making Mario walk and stop before a hole and fight enemies would take very fine precision that may not be possible from an unsupported human hand and this controller, without mushy response and wide auto-aiming type features. If fine control is not required by the game, then I'm afraid we are going down the road to "Dragon's Lair" type games which more closely resemble movies than games. I think consumers prefer games where the character motions precisely reflect what they are doing with their controllers. I think this is a large source of our immersion in the game.
Sometimes I think some of these positive-without-any-hesitation type comments have to be from Nintendo PR employees' astroturfing efforts here and elsewhere. I mean it doesn't mean I hate Nintendo to just simply ask reasonable, scientific questions.
The fuel that drives my skepticism is my brother's old Power Glove and our experiences with it. You can say this is very different and you are right, but there are many, many similarities. Using the Glove, we finally had to come to the sad conclusion that just because you COULD control Mario with it didn't mean it was fun. It took 100% concentration on the interface at all times. We wanted it to be great- it was marketed that way and the Nintendo movie "The Wizard" showed it as being that way. But it just wasn't fun. Why would you want to control Mario with your arm? What was fun about Mario was the game itself, the running, the jumping, etc. all based on the split second accuracy and precision granted by the controller. The only thing we eventually ever used on the glove was the functioning controller Nintendo stuck on top of it. Putting up with the delays and imprecision in the glove became too much trouble. That's my point; I just hope the use of the new Revolution's controller doesn't become such a hassle that people just don't play Nintendo games anymore at all or worse yet, we have games such as the Glove's Super Glove Ball, which are made specifically for the controller and utterly insipid.
I do hope I'm wrong on some of these points and the controller works perfectly. Gaming could use new life; the games are becoming repetitive. Let us hope that the end result is more and exciting new gaming types, not just an old dusty Revolution in the closet next to our Power Glove.
<center>
<img src="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image
owerglovead.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><img src="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Supergloveball.GIF" border="0" alt="" />
</center>
JarrodKing
Newcomer
I find this argument absurd. Nintendo created the Power Glove. It didn't sell very well (that I recall) nor was it really heavily used, primarily because it was a poor controller. So why would you (not just you, but "you" in general) assume that Nintendo is going to create the exact same device with the exact same flaws?JarrodKing said:
.Sis
This is the worst bit of news. Who wants this sensor bar thing cluttering up your entertainment center? The Eye Toy was bad enough, and it was just a small thing. Now i have a whole bar (about 1 foot long i believe he said?) sitting above or below my TV. Yuk.c_k_i_t said:
What's really bad is if it's too ugly my significant other will complain and then I'll have to put it away after every use...
.Sis
Nobody here is stupid enough to actually believe that video proves it will work. For those who don't get the point of the video, it was to show what CAN be done and HOW the controller will be held for each of the types of games that will be offered.
Revolution is about a year away and what was shown was proof of concept. I think you're nitpicking at first impression details that will be moot when the final product ships. I'd rather look at the big picture. Nintendo has shown that it knows what it's doing when it comes to controllers so I give them the benefit of the doubt. Of course people will be skeptic, but it's still too early to conclude that it won't work.
Like someone already mentioned. You don't take a conventional game and just stupidly map the D pad to the pointer. If the specific type of game cannot use the new controller in a significant way then it will simply fall back to the conventional control method which this controller can still provide.
Well none of us know how well this new controller will work with a game like Mario. If it doesn't work well with a platformer then you won't be seeing it used with that type of game. Obviously the pointer will not be suited to all types of games just like the stylus for the DS isn't used for all types of games, but I don't think anybody ever expected that.
So, you're questioning the precision possible with this device?JarrodKing said:There are an equal number of people on here that are ready to throw all scientific and previous gaming experience out the window and believe and follow Nintendo's PR department anywhere and everywhere on this subject. Come on! One video is just actors holding the controller with no screen shown and sound effects added!!! My God, they could be holding a rubber chicken or a flashlight and the video would be exactly the same. I am not trying to be pessimistic. I'm just trying to use logic and reason to look at what they are saying will happen. Nintendo can technologically innovate all they want, but some basics physics and human anatomy problems cannot be glossed over so easily and should be discussed on this technical forum, I would hope. It should be debated just like a company's dubious new video card claims would be.
The IGN report that says they needed to use two hands gives credence to a view that maybe this isn't the panacea for all game control that the rabid fans are trying to make it. I think this product will work great for large movements, like whether you are slashing your arm in a sword-swinging type motion or detecting large turns. But it is fine movement and precision, which contrary to what you say uCOM-4, should be needed in nearly any quality game, which I am unsure of with this controller. Simply making Mario walk and stop before a hole and fight enemies would take very fine precision that may not be possible from an unsupported human hand and this controller, without mushy response and wide auto-aiming type features. If fine control is not required by the game, then I'm afraid we are going down the road to "Dragon's Lair" type games which more closely resemble movies than games. I think consumers prefer games where the character motions precisely reflect what they are doing with their controllers. I think this is a large source of our immersion in the game.
Sometimes I think some of these positive-without-any-hesitation type comments have to be from Nintendo PR employees' astroturfing efforts here and elsewhere. I mean it doesn't mean I hate Nintendo to just simply ask reasonable, scientific questions.
The fuel that drives my skepticism is my brother's old Power Glove and our experiences with it. You can say this is very different and you are right, but there are many, many similarities. Using the Glove, we finally had to come to the sad conclusion that just because you COULD control Mario with it didn't mean it was fun. It took 100% concentration on the interface at all times. We wanted it to be great- it was marketed that way and the Nintendo movie "The Wizard" showed it as being that way. But it just wasn't fun. Why would you want to control Mario with your arm? What was fun about Mario was the game itself, the running, the jumping, etc. all based on the split second accuracy and precision granted by the controller. The only thing we eventually ever used on the glove was the functioning controller Nintendo stuck on top of it. Putting up with the delays and imprecision in the glove became too much trouble. That's my point; I just hope the use of the new Revolution's controller doesn't become such a hassle that people just don't play Nintendo games anymore at all or worse yet, we have games such as the Glove's Super Glove Ball, which are made specifically for the controller and utterly insipid.
I do hope I'm wrong on some of these points and the controller works perfectly. Gaming could use new life; the games are becoming repetitive. Let us hope that the end result is more and exciting new gaming types, not just an old dusty Revolution in the closet next to our Power Glove.
<center>
<img src="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image
<img src="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Supergloveball.GIF" border="0" alt="" />
</center>
Tell you what, think of the mouse you are probably holding in your hand at this very moment.
You are using a combination of wrist and finger motion to move it from side to side and back and forth on a 2d plane, and the mouse uses an optical system to detect the shifting of either the surface pattern or slits in spinning discs. This is not so different from the technology allegedly used by the Revolution controller. It might be using radio or infrared but it's the same basic principles at work. Only this setup can also measure z movement and has a gyro for tilt sensing.
If you told and enginer 40 years ago that it is possible to get reasonable precision from a 20$ device that that looks at the underlying surface, he would probably have laughed you in your face.
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Just on that one point. That was most likley due to a lack of familiarity. If you remember the Ultra64 controller, people initally had problems with Mario 64 at trade shows (running off cliffs and bumping into walls). So I have no doubt over time you get better with it. In anycase traditional games will just use the traditional controller.JarrodKing said:
The power glove is completely and utterly different, it's like saying because you don't like using a tracker ball, you won't like using a mouse either.
Also I just thought of something that I hadn't previously, if you pick up your mouse and hold it like a TV remote then try pressing one of the buttons with your thumb, their is virtually no unwanted movement of the mouse tip. The amount of force required to push the button down is minute, at least on my mouse anyway.
The reason why I'm not atall skeptical about this is because I have no reason to be. I have used devices like this before and they were less difficult to get used to than a joy pad which I still can't aim with. None of the reasons to doubt it which people have come out with seem like a problem to me. Infact I'll just list them and why I'm not concerned.
You will get tired holding it:
If holding a remote while resting your arm on your lap makes you tired you need more excersize.
You will get RSI from it:
Same with mouse, keyboard, game pad.
You won't be able to control game X very well:
I won't play it then and they probably won't even make it. Also the damn thing can used like a classic game pad if you turn it on it's side.
It looks like a TV remote:
But still very stylish
It's not per pixel accurate:
And a joy pad is? Also how do you know the sensors will have a lower resolution than the image?
You can't aim with your arm/wrist as well as you can with your fingers:
I can't aim with a joypad at all. I probably won't be able to aim with this thing as well as i could aim with a mouse, but the games probably won't require that level of aim.
I used a product like this and I didn't like it:
Well I guess we better write every controller similiar to that off then. I can't stand joy pads, but I like joysticks, yet their very similiar.
Pressing down the buttons will cause the whole thing to move:
Doesn't happen with my mouse or TV remote, or atleast the movement is so small it's negligible.
Nintendo are makeing a console that is fun, they have a fun controller and their going to make fun medium to small games for it. If I want epic or competitive games I still have my PC.
Also I just thought of something that I hadn't previously, if you pick up your mouse and hold it like a TV remote then try pressing one of the buttons with your thumb, their is virtually no unwanted movement of the mouse tip. The amount of force required to push the button down is minute, at least on my mouse anyway.
The reason why I'm not atall skeptical about this is because I have no reason to be. I have used devices like this before and they were less difficult to get used to than a joy pad which I still can't aim with. None of the reasons to doubt it which people have come out with seem like a problem to me. Infact I'll just list them and why I'm not concerned.
You will get tired holding it:
If holding a remote while resting your arm on your lap makes you tired you need more excersize.
You will get RSI from it:
Same with mouse, keyboard, game pad.
You won't be able to control game X very well:
I won't play it then and they probably won't even make it. Also the damn thing can used like a classic game pad if you turn it on it's side.
It looks like a TV remote:
But still very stylish
It's not per pixel accurate:
And a joy pad is? Also how do you know the sensors will have a lower resolution than the image?
You can't aim with your arm/wrist as well as you can with your fingers:
I can't aim with a joypad at all. I probably won't be able to aim with this thing as well as i could aim with a mouse, but the games probably won't require that level of aim.
I used a product like this and I didn't like it:
Well I guess we better write every controller similiar to that off then. I can't stand joy pads, but I like joysticks, yet their very similiar.
Pressing down the buttons will cause the whole thing to move:
Doesn't happen with my mouse or TV remote, or atleast the movement is so small it's negligible.
Nintendo are makeing a console that is fun, they have a fun controller and their going to make fun medium to small games for it. If I want epic or competitive games I still have my PC.
Sis said:
Is the sensor bar wired, or wireless?
If it's wired, how long are the wires?
If it's wireless, what kind of batteries does it use, and how often do they have to be replaced?
How large are the sensors?
How do you mount them if you have a flat panel TV mounted on the wall? What if you use a projector?
How sturdy are they? Do I have to worry about my 4 year old ripping them out and crushing them?
How much do they cost to replace?
How hard are they to install or remove? After all, I may want to take this to a family members house so I can show it to their kids while visiting on vacation.
This should answer some of your questions:
Taken from and interview with Nintendo's head of European marketing:
http://www.gamesradar.com/news/default.asp?pagetypeid=2&articleid=37344&subsectionid=2504
Edit: ops, that was posted already. I just wonder why do some people NEVER read the actual info posted around. Ignorance-on-purpose doesn't help much proving a point.
www.gamesradar.com said:
Taken from and interview with Nintendo's head of European marketing:
http://www.gamesradar.com/news/default.asp?pagetypeid=2&articleid=37344&subsectionid=2504
Edit: ops, that was posted already. I just wonder why do some people NEVER read the actual info posted around. Ignorance-on-purpose doesn't help much proving a point.
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Nintendo specifically wants to keep quiet any games played with the controller, because I think they feel it will put the focus on the games and they would rather have the focus on the control interface.Squeak said:
Anyway, all I hope is that places that sell Revolutions will have the tethers on these controllers long enough for full motion, so we can test them out adequately in the stores.
Does anyone understand where PowderKeg is coming from?
Even though I've choosen to go with Sony the past two generations (what can I say, I love the Gran Turismo and Metal Gear franchises), I'm a gamer at heart and hold no allegiace to any one company.As a gamer, the possibilities of this new type of interface excite the hell out of me - sort of like how I felt just before the PS1/N64 era, when we were ablout to venture into the uncharted realm of 3D.. so many new possibilities lay before us. And from what I've seen, people are feeling the same way on almost every gaming forum on the internet, from Gaming-Age and 1up to Edge and Eurogamer.
But PowderKeg is like this machine, pre-programmed to spew anti-nintendo propoganda, and when someone calls him on something, he's simply changes the subect and goes off on some other tangent. No, "I respect what Nintendo is trying to do, but it's just not my thing." no, 'It's a good idea, but I don't like the way it's being implemented." - nothing of the sort. While this type of behaviour is common to fanbois of a particular company, I've checked his post history and he doesn't seem to particularly favor Sony or Microsoft - he just hates Nintendo.
Nintendo's next generation console isn't there to replace the PS3 or 360, it's there to offer something different. So why care so much? It's no threat to the other systems, it's not even going to be trying to compete with them anymore - if anything I'd think that'd make him happy.
Even though I've choosen to go with Sony the past two generations (what can I say, I love the Gran Turismo and Metal Gear franchises), I'm a gamer at heart and hold no allegiace to any one company.As a gamer, the possibilities of this new type of interface excite the hell out of me - sort of like how I felt just before the PS1/N64 era, when we were ablout to venture into the uncharted realm of 3D.. so many new possibilities lay before us. And from what I've seen, people are feeling the same way on almost every gaming forum on the internet, from Gaming-Age and 1up to Edge and Eurogamer.
But PowderKeg is like this machine, pre-programmed to spew anti-nintendo propoganda, and when someone calls him on something, he's simply changes the subect and goes off on some other tangent. No, "I respect what Nintendo is trying to do, but it's just not my thing." no, 'It's a good idea, but I don't like the way it's being implemented." - nothing of the sort. While this type of behaviour is common to fanbois of a particular company, I've checked his post history and he doesn't seem to particularly favor Sony or Microsoft - he just hates Nintendo.
Nintendo's next generation console isn't there to replace the PS3 or 360, it's there to offer something different. So why care so much? It's no threat to the other systems, it's not even going to be trying to compete with them anymore - if anything I'd think that'd make him happy.
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