Xbox 360 HDMI Capable

[Simon Templar]

http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=1803

interesting bit.....

The Xbox 360 was hooked up to a Samsung DLP rear projection TV via component video. It’s a shame that it wasn’t connected via HDMI, but the Microsoft representative assured me that the 360 can output over HDMI, but that there isn’t a cable available at present.

So maybe the output chip is capable but just not enabled....

Of couse this is not confirmed and could change (like progressive scan was supposed to be on xbox)

 

[µCOM-4]

My guess is that MS will have a HDCP compliant chip in ALL Xbox 360s even the DVD versions. There are 3 very good reasons for this.

1. They can allow regular upconversion of DVDs with HDMI/HDCP.
2. They can allow streaming of HD DVD/BR movies from a media server PC through Xbox 360.
3. They can release a HD DVD based Xbox 360 later on without having to replace/redesign the video out chip.

 

[Guden Oden]

The x360's video out connector is by all available information analog in nature. It actually looks very similar, if not identical, to the connector on the original box. Therefore per definition it is not capable of HDMI output, no matter what cable is connected, with less than an ADC chip and a TDMS transmitter being included in the cable to sample the analog signal and digitize it and then send it to the diisplay device, with subsequent image quality loss as a result. Also, unless a power pin or two is present in the connector,there would be no way to run these chips either unless an external power source is present (read: wall-wart style transformer).

Cumbersome, and expensive!

 

[µCOM-4]

The x360's video out connector is by all available information analog in nature. It actually looks very similar, if not identical, to the connector on the original box. Therefore per definition it is not capable of HDMI output, no matter what cable is connected, with less than an ADC chip and a TDMS transmitter being included in the cable to sample the analog signal and digitize it and then send it to the diisplay device, with subsequent image quality loss as a result. Also, unless a power pin or two is present in the connector,there would be no way to run these chips either unless an external power source is present (read: wall-wart style transformer).

Cumbersome, and expensive!

You don't understand how MS designed the Xbox 360. It has a multi-out connector. This connector can output a digital signal if required. The analog cables just tap the analog pins of the multi-out connector. Ever heard of DVI-I? There's no TDMS transmitter nonsense inside of a cable. In fact the D/A chip doesn't even have to convert the video signal at all and can just leave it in the digital domain.

 

[seismologist]

yeah I was going to mention that the X360 output is analog.

They could release an HDMI cable with a cheap A/D built in but it wouldn't be HDCP compliant.

You don't understand how MS designed the Xbox 360. It has a multi-out connector.

really? The X360 has digital video out? You got a link?

 

[Guden Oden]

This connector can output a digital signal if required.

That's not been officially confirmed. In fact, MS stated previously x360 was not capable of digital-out. It's not mentioned in any specs sheets, nor was anything of the sort stated at the E3 unveiling. Furthermore there's been no announcement of a digital cable either, only analog component, and it is not possible to get the deluxe version of the console with a digital HD cable instead of an analog.

All you have is some dodgy statement made by some MS person, which may or may not be true; just because DVI-I has both analog and digital pins doesn't mean x360 multi-out has. Like I said, the connector looks A LOT like the one for xbox, and that one most definitely does not have any digital pins (save for SPDIF).

 

[µCOM-4]

The Xbox connector looking the same means nothing. That's like saying a DVI-A connector looks like a DVD-I and DVI-D connector.

 

[seismologist]

I've always thought it was unusual that MS has been promoting HD gaming but then even in the premium bundle there's no digital video cable. I just assumed it was because the output was analog.

 

[Guden Oden]

The Xbox connector looking the same means nothing. That's like saying a DVI-A connector looks like a DVD-I and DVI-D connector.

Now you've passed over into wishful thinking mode.

When emoticons take the role of logical arguments, it's a sign the speaker has nothing to say.

 

[µCOM-4]

Just pointing the reality of what's possible. If you don't think it's possible then go ahead and design your own cable with built-in TDMS transmitter.

the Microsoft representative assured me that the 360 can output over HDMI, but that there isn’t a cable available at present

 

[Guden Oden]

Just pointing the reality of what's possible.

Yet you state this SPECULATION with the certainty of fact, despite that what this is, is at best an unconfirmed rumor.

The MS representative mentioned in that news piece doesn't even have a name, forgive me if I don't consider this information to be rock-solid gospel...

And here's an emoticon for you:

 

[Sis]

I've always thought it was unusual that MS has been promoting HD gaming but then even in the premium bundle there's no digital video cable. I just assumed it was because the output was analog.

I'll go out on a limb and defend this one, even though I agree with the sentiment. On my HDTV--bought only 6 months ago and not a cheapy--I only have 1 HDMI connection, which is being used.

I believe the majority of TVs only have one HDMI or DVI connection, though two is becoming more common place. However, I do have several component connections. So if you take the number of households with an HDTV and divide out those with an available HDMI connection, then further reduce that number by those who will buy an Xbox 360, I think the amount is dreadfully small.

So I feel like they were targetting a sweet-spot and would be disappointed and surprised if a DVI/HDMI hookup wasn't made available eventually, in the next year or two--assuming there isn't a technical or legal reason why it's impossible.

.Sis

 

[Ty]

I believe the majority of TVs only have one HDMI or DVI connection, though two is becoming more common place. However, I do have several component connections. So if you take the number of households with an HDTV and divide out those with an available HDMI connection, then further reduce that number by those who will buy an Xbox 360, I think the amount is dreadfully small.

Well not only that but there is little reason imo, to use a HDMI output if they don't have a HD-DVD drive anyhow. To me the only 2 reasons to go HDMI is for HD-DVD/BR or 1080p.

In other words, what would HDMI provide over a Component connection when they aren't exceeding the bandwidth of Component and don't need to worry about HDCP?

 

[Iron Tiger]

In other words, what would HDMI provide over a Component connection when they aren't exceeding the bandwidth of Component and don't need to worry about HDCP?

A flawless(ly transmitted) picture, free from artifacts brought on by interference.

 

[jvd]

Do we know if the port is capable of digital ?

It sounds to me like its the chip that isn't (not xenos but the webtv chip)

So why can't it just by pass it ?

 

[a688]

A flawless(ly transmitted) picture, free from artifacts brought on by interference.

Not really. http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html

 

[oli2]

In other words, what would HDMI provide over a Component connection when they aren't exceeding the bandwidth of Component and don't need to worry about HDCP?

The signal that comes out of the scaler is a digital one. So if you use component, you have to convert it to analog through the DAC.

If your display is a digital one (plasma, LCD VP, LCD screen, DLP VP for example), you will find an ACD to re-convert it from analog to digital.
Two points here :
- What is the quality of the DAC on the Xbox 360
- The quality of ADC on display may be completly null to wonderfull.

If you use DVI / HDMI on both sides, those two steps of conversion won't occur ...

 

[ban25]

This block diagram has an "analog chip" between the GPU and the video out:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a210/AlgebraicRing/talk_3_slide_5.jpg

 

[Ty]

A flawless(ly transmitted) picture, free from artifacts brought on by interference.

The signal that comes out of the scaler is a digital one. So if you use component, you have to convert it to analog through the DAC.

If your display is a digital one (plasma, LCD VP, LCD screen, DLP VP for example), you will find an ACD to re-convert it from analog to digital.
Two points here :
- What is the quality of the DAC on the Xbox 360
- The quality of ADC on display may be completly null to wonderfull.

If you use DVI / HDMI on both sides, those two steps of conversion won't occur ...

Ok, both posts above are certainly true and yes, being the owner of a Plasma with DVI that supports HDCP, I certainly prefer to have as little conversion as possible.

I was speaking in practical, real world usage. I personally don't think it's going to matter much for 720p UNLESS as oli2 points out, the DAC is crap. So yep, you both are right but it remains to be seen what the impact will be.

 

[oli2]

This block diagram has an "analog chip" between the GPU and the video out:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a210/AlgebraicRing/talk_3_slide_5.jpg

I think you should not put too much faith in this diagram as it not precise enough and everything can be said when looking at this ...

Take that (Thanks SanGreal), it is much more clear :
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/1590/xbox2schemebg2uw.gif