Armstrong wins Tour de France again!

[CMAN]

Armstrong is amazing. I heard someone saw a tv show about him and they said his heart was much bigger than a normal human's heart.

Seven times in a row. It'd suck to be another cyclist during that time period, like Ulrich. Ulrich is amazing but a lot of people in Germany are mad that he can't be Armstrong. Not his fault Armstrong is so good.

 

[Guden Oden]

Usually it's very very bad to have an enlarged heart, it tends to be fatal actually. I'm not sure it really is that much bigger really. After all, Armstrong only had one segment victory during this tour, he won the overall victory by delivering a consistently good performance. Probably as much good judgement as good power and stamina behind that, I would think.

Anyway, it was half a decade ago now since those first jokes started being cracked about Armstrong having conquered france more times than the germans, but it's still funny.

 

[digitalwanderer]

I'll tip me glass to Lance any day. His victories are impressive enough, but when you add in his cancer backstory he's just an incredible human interest story of a true survivor.

 

[ninelven]

I'm not sure it really is that much bigger really.

~33%

 

[Druga Runda]

this is one of the most impressive feats in sport ever!

 

[Farid]

I'm not sure it really is that much bigger really.

~33%

Let me guess, Extreme Ventricle?

 

[epicstruggle]

gratz to lance. I used to watch with my dad the event a few years ago. had to wake up in the middle of the night to do it. Now they dont carry the sport on tv except to show the highlights.

epic

 

[Rune]

this is one of the most impressive feats in sport ever!

Maybe if you take his ilness into acount. Eddie Mercx still has a better track record overall, I'd say. On the top of my head he won 5 Tour de France, 5 Giro D'Italia, 1 Vuelta D'Éspana and alot of the classics....

 

[Gollum]

I bow to the master. Lance certainly created a record that will, IMO, stand the test of time. I don't think anybody else will get close to 7 TdF victories in a row ever again, at least not during our livetimes. Truly an amazing accomplishment!

I agree that Eddie Merckx is probably still more deserving of the "greatest cyclist of all time" title though, he's won so many races besides the TdF that a comparison really wouldn't be fair, as Armstrong concentrated on only the Tour. Even Ullrich has a more diverse portfolio of victories, an olimpic gold medal and a victory at the Vuelta are something Lance didn't achieve. Still, due to the importance of the TdF, Lance has certainly been the dominating cyclist of the past decade, and his cancer hostory certainly makes this all the more impressive.

Who'll win next year? I guess Basso has the biggest chance, though Ullrich should never be underestimated. Winokourov, Evans, Landis, Leipheimer, Mancebo, Rasmussen, etc. are amazing athletes, but I have my doubts they could beat Basso or Ullrich even in top shape. Could a young gun like Valverde, Cunego, Popowych or someone yet unknown surprise everybody? I guess the TdF 2006 will be pretty exciting...

 

[MPI]

Usually it's very very bad to have an enlarged heart, it tends to be fatal actually.

Having a large heart is certainly not the same as having an enlarged heart. Having a heart disease doesn't often increase heart capacity last I heard.

 

[Rune]

Who'll win next year? I guess Basso has the biggest chance, though Ullrich should never be underestimated. Winokourov, Evans, Landis, Leipheimer, Mancebo, Rasmussen, etc. are amazing athletes, but I have my doubts they could beat Basso or Ullrich even in top shape. Could a young gun like Valverde, Cunego, Popowych or someone yet unknown surprise everybody? I guess the TdF 2006 will be pretty exciting...

Basso will not win next year I'm afraid. His psyche isn't strong enough. It will be a much more level field next year and I fear that he will crumble under the pressure during the time trials. Valverde and Cunego are too young still. I think that Ulrich will probaply take it.

 

[RussSchultz]

I bet the next few years the victory will be hollow, with lots of "if lance was in it" speculation...

 

[Gollum]

Basso will not win next year I'm afraid. His psyche isn't strong enough. It will be a much more level field next year and I fear that he will crumble under the pressure during the time trials. Valverde and Cunego are too young still. I think that Ulrich will probaply take it.

Well, CSC will have to step up to the challenge and really work hard to make him win. They're strong, but I have my doubts they can act as effectively as USP/DSC has the past years. This year, much as last, they seemed content to come in 2nd, which I thought was pretty lame.

Of course we all know how well that worked last year, where Basso lost his second place to Klöden in the time trials, deservedly so. With another time trial the same might have happened this year too, the seconds just melted away towards the end. His advantage lies in the mountains, but he'll need more than the 2-3 minutes he took off Ullrich this year, as the TdF 2006 will have 2 long time trials instead of only one...

As for the victory being hollow, I don't think so. Lance has demonstrated he is pretty much unbeatable if he puts his mind to it. True, next year's winner won't have the bragging rights of having beat Lance, but that's not the point of the race. Its the Tour de France, the toughest race on the face of this planet, has been for decades before Lance was even born. Whoever wins will get all the respect he deserves. Though I have to admit it will be weird watching a Tour without Lance, I'm kidna used to see him carrying that yellow jersey to Paris...

 

[Rune]

Basso did attack more this year. moreso than last anyway. He just didn't have the punch to do anything to Armstrong. Ulrich, however, couldn't follow him. I hope next year they will have Frank Schleck on the TDF team, he really rode a nice Giro, he should be able to serve Basso in the mountains even better.

 

[Gollum]

Don't get me wrong, I like CSC as a team, they just need to be more present once the Tour hits the mountains, which was their weak spot these past 2 years.

Either way, next year is gonna be very exciting!

 

[Fred]

What amazes me is that if Lance Amstrong never existed, Ulrich could have won 8 tdf's (he already has one).

Gotta feel a little bad for the guy.

The thing is, I believe winning 7 TdF's can be done again by some athlete. In this day and age, the science of sports is pretty mature. That Amstrong won all the time, was almost inevitable, even before the race even began. He simply turns the pedals at a quicker rate than anyone else, and has the oxygen ratio to sustain it.

Once someone else has that simple physical advantage, its just a question of mantaining it over the years and having a decent team. Both of those are now totally doable. So I think we'll see a new repeat performer fairly soon (it might skip one generation)

 

[DemoCoder]

There was a Norwegian family profiled once in a Scientific American article on the future of sports doping (i.e. gene therapy -> undetectable unless you have a genetic history of the person). This Norwegian family always won cross country tournaments and biathlons, and it turned out, they had a gene that delivered substantially non-normal VO2_max *even without training* In other words, they were born with higher VO2_max capacity. With training, it was even better.

It is undeniable that certain sports and certain component of athletics comes down to genetics, otherwise, sports doping wouldn't work so well. There is a limit for each person, to how far they can take their body, before they run up against their natural limits. For some people, the limits to strength, endurance, et al are further out on the bell curve, just like some people live much longer even if they smoke 5 packs of cigarettes and eat 5 Big Macs a day.

I don't think Lance doped, I think he wins via a combination of a) lots of preparation and training for the TDF *only* b) superior strategy and c) being gifted with (ironically given the cancer) better biology.

 

[Nathan]

What amazes me is that if Lance Amstrong never existed, Ulrich could have won 8 tdf's (he already has one).

Possibly, Ulrich doesn't have the dedication that Lance does, and Ivan Basso has beaten him the last 2 years. He would have won a few though.

The thing is, I believe winning 7 TdF's can be done again by some athlete. In this day and age, the science of sports is pretty mature. That Amstrong won all the time, was almost inevitable, even before the race even began. He simply turns the pedals at a quicker rate than anyone else, and has the oxygen ratio to sustain it.

Doubtful, Eddy Merckx, the greatest cyclist of all time, couldn't win 7. Eddy had 525 wins in 1,800 races; an insane record that will probably never be beaten. You're doing a big disservice to Lance by reducing him to a high cadence "oxygen ratio."

Once someone else has that simple physical advantage, its just a question of mantaining it over the years and having a decent team. Both of those are now totally doable. So I think we'll see a new repeat performer fairly soon (it might skip one generation)

Nevermind the need for exceptional bike handling skills, the ability and desire to push yourself past what you thought your limits were, the will to focus on one race all year round for 7 years straight, and the good fortune not to get caught in any of the multitudes of crashes that occur every year. Not to mention the tactical and mental games that go on in the peloton.

Winning 7 times can't be boiled down to having the highest VO2 Max; that's just one part of the very complicated equation required to win the Tour. Lance Armstrong's life has revolved around winning it for the last 7 years. There is no other rider in the history of the event who has exhibited such single-minded dedication to the race.

 

[Nathan]

I don't think Lance doped, I think he wins via a combination of a) lots of preparation and training for the TDF *only* b) superior strategy and c) being gifted with (ironically given the cancer) better biology.

I don't think he used dope either. Lance was a pretty good rider before cancer, but he wasn't Tour winning material. He had the opportunity to pretty much rebuild himself from scratch. It was only after beating cancer that he developed the ability to pedal at such a high cadence. I think he also became much tougher mentally, which is a huge part of the Tour. Everyone has their bad days, the mentally tough guys are the ones that don't quit when their legs feel like lead and they've been dropped by the peloton.

 

[DemoCoder]

No one is saying that VO2_max determines the winner. It may be neccessary, but not sufficient. If two riders with nearly the same VO2_max enter, the one with the better training, strategy, and mental committment will win. However, a guy with 2x the VO2_max of another, might be able to spank his competitors without much effort.

You want to see mental determination? Look at Ultramarathon runners who run from 1000-3000 miles. The 3000 mile trans america race for example, has runners running 45 miles a day for 64+ days.