SEGA didn't use Series5 for Lindbergh after all?!!!

[Ailuros]

I actually expect Eurasia to be way more scalable than MBX, but to what degree unknown. I don't even know if it's as scalable to be able to reach a high end PC incarnation theoretically, but considering how much IMG fell on it's nose with Series5, I have severe doubts that they might even bother.

Initial target for S5 was console, PC and arcade. If the last frontier for it has failed too, then I doubt that they'll bother with such a complex high end design again. No R&D expenses would hardly float in from one single license with no royalty prospects and shelving an architecture for the 2nd time, doesn't obviously speak in favour of ambitious and complex high end designs for the future.

 

[Lazy8s]

Sega Sammy's plan for two new PowerVR arcade lines, a Series 5 performance board and an MBX value board, hasn't changed. Imgtec still has them scheduled in their disclosures. There's no indication of an X360 board from Sega Sammy at this point.

The performance system, Lindbergh, is the implementation of Series 5 that PowerVR made before Eurasia, information suggests. The value board, Aurora, is powered by Renesas's SH3707 SoC combining a 300M-Hz SH-4 and a 150M-Hz MBX with VGP.

While Aurora hasn't yet been demonstrated, Series 5 as Lindbergh is likely the only hardware that could've been running Sega Sammy's Next Level next generation in-house content presentation at E3 (Afterburner, Virtua Fighter, Sonic, and of course The House of the Dead 4) considering the demos were at full speed in realtime.

 

[Sonic]

I would say there is an Xbox 360 arcade board coming from SEGA. It is not the most powerful.

 

[TEXAN]

So Sonic, you agree with my prophecies?

Lindbergh - XBox 360 based - Mid end board - To power lesser franchises (HOTD, CT? MB?).

System SP - Series-5 based - High end board - To power premier franchises (VF, SONIC, AB, SR? DUSA?).

Would you agree?

 

[Dave Baumann]

I would have my doubts about Series 5 being that high end now.

 

[TEXAN]

I would have my doubts about Series 5 being that high end now.

Why? is it old? when was it completed?

Even if it is old remember the advantage of Imgtec's technology of scalability a method which is far superior to the ones both nvidia and ati use.

Connecting 2 PowerVR chips can give you close to 200% power, 4 chips - nearly 400% and so on, and so on...

Ati, Nvidia and the old 3dfx's methods were/are no where near that level of efficiency.

Who knows with a custom board you can go all mental something you can't do by licensing an Xb360 or PS3. for example their might be an elan 2 in there a dedicated high end PPU that can destroy cell.

I can see a Naomi 2 type layout.

A PPU, a T&L unit, 2-4 Series-5 GPU's etc.

We'll find out in due time.

 

[arjan de lumens]

Why would ImgTech-type TBDRs benefit any more from going multi-chip than, say, ATI Crossfire solutions in 'Supertiling' mode? The difference in load-balancing efficiency is AFAIK minimal, and the problems of distributing/replicating geometry and frame compositing are just as severe whether you do TBDR or not.

 

[Roger Kohli]

After all this time SEGA has lisenced S5, there should be at least something to be seen by now.

In their 2004 interim results Img said

Developments with Renesas for use by Sammy, and the latest SEGA partnership are expected to lead to volume shipments in the amusement machine market starting from the second half of this financial year and middle of next financial year respectively

which would indicate that the SEGA arcade stuff should be coming out in September 2005 (if they're on schedule).

 

[Ailuros]

After all this time SEGA has lisenced S5, there should be at least something to be seen by now.

In their 2004 interim results Img said

Developments with Renesas for use by Sammy, and the latest SEGA partnership are expected to lead to volume shipments in the amusement machine market starting from the second half of this financial year and middle of next financial year respectively

which would indicate that the SEGA arcade stuff should be coming out in September 2005 (if they're on schedule).

Where's the guarantee that that particular sentence mentions high end arcade systems? See above about low end amusement systems.

 

[Ailuros]

Even if it is old remember the advantage of Imgtec's technology of scalability a method which is far superior to the ones both nvidia and ati use.

Connecting 2 PowerVR chips can give you close to 200% power, 4 chips - nearly 400% and so on, and so on...

And obviously twice the complexity and manufacturing cost vs. a single board sollution.

Ati, Nvidia and the old 3dfx's methods were/are no where near that level of efficiency.

Pardon me, but where are the benchmarks to back that one up? See also arjans' comments.

Who knows with a custom board you can go all mental something you can't do by licensing an Xb360 or PS3. for example their might be an elan 2 in there a dedicated high end PPU that can destroy cell.

I can see a Naomi 2 type layout.

A PPU, a T&L unit, 2-4 Series-5 GPU's etc.

We'll find out in due time.

See cost considerations above.

 

[deviantchild]

I actually expect Eurasia to be way more scalable than MBX, but to what degree unknown. I don't even know if it's as scalable to be able to reach a high end PC incarnation theoretically, but considering how much IMG fell on it's nose with Series5, I have severe doubts that they might even bother.

Initial target for S5 was console, PC and arcade. If the last frontier for it has failed too, then I doubt that they'll bother with such a complex high end design again. No R&D expenses would hardly float in from one single license with no royalty prospects and shelving an architecture for the 2nd time, doesn't obviously speak in favour of ambitious and complex high end designs for the future.

my bad! i got muddled last night and mentioned Eurasia when i was actually talking about Aurora
agreed, Eurasia is a far-ranging design
Aurora is the SEGA/Sammy cheapy that is still pretty good as far as MBX systems go

btw, Img borrowed a load more cash about 2mths ago, for R&D, as returns from MBX has been slow - PDA/handheld market being slow on adopting [rigged market?] as it has been

 

[deviantchild]

After all this time SEGA has lisenced S5, there should be at least something to be seen by now.

In their 2004 interim results Img said

Developments with Renesas for use by Sammy, and the latest SEGA partnership are expected to lead to volume shipments in the amusement machine market starting from the second half of this financial year and middle of next financial year respectively

which would indicate that the SEGA arcade stuff should be coming out in September 2005 (if they're on schedule).

that would refer to Aurora only - i see no mention of an S5 part there

edit: oops! Ail already said it

 

[Ailuros]

Renesas holds only a license for MBX.

 

[TEXAN]

Even if it is old remember the advantage of Imgtec's technology of scalability a method which is far superior to the ones both nvidia and ati use.

Connecting 2 PowerVR chips can give you close to 200% power, 4 chips - nearly 400% and so on, and so on...

And obviously twice the complexity and manufacturing cost vs. a single board sollution.

Ati, Nvidia and the old 3dfx's methods were/are no where near that level of efficiency.

Pardon me, but where are the benchmarks to back that one up? See also arjans' comments.

Who knows with a custom board you can go all mental something you can't do by licensing an Xb360 or PS3. for example their might be an elan 2 in there a dedicated high end PPU that can destroy cell.

I can see a Naomi 2 type layout.

A PPU, a T&L unit, 2-4 Series-5 GPU's etc.

We'll find out in due time.

See cost considerations above.

I doubt SEGA SAMMY care about the cost of a board when every cabinet is attached with a 62" 1080p widescreen Toshiba/Canon SED TV which are well over 10k themselves.

Majority of their games are placed within their own 500+ megacomplexes throughout Japan.

Money is no object.

 

[Megadrive1988]

Even if it is old remember the advantage of Imgtec's technology of scalability a method which is far superior to the ones both nvidia and ati use.

Connecting 2 PowerVR chips can give you close to 200% power, 4 chips - nearly 400% and so on, and so on...

And obviously twice the complexity and manufacturing cost vs. a single board sollution.

but you could physically have a single board, and 2-4 PowerVR GPUs on that board, the same board where the CPU, memory, audio and everything else sits.

 

[Lazy8s]

PowerVR has no other announced deal with Sammy than the SH3707 and no other announced partnership with SEGA than the high-end board, so Imgtec's statements for SEGA would refer to none other than the high-end segment. The House of the Dead 4, Afterburner, Virtua Fighter, Sonic = Lindbergh = Series 5

Lindbergh's Series 5 would have to be very old by now, but it is holding up remarkably as shown by the E3 presentation. Sega Sammy will probably adopt the newer Series 5 and beyond of Eurasia since they update their arcade hardware frequently, which might not require the development environment to have to undergo too much of a retooling in this case.

 

[Ailuros]

Even if it is old remember the advantage of Imgtec's technology of scalability a method which is far superior to the ones both nvidia and ati use.

Connecting 2 PowerVR chips can give you close to 200% power, 4 chips - nearly 400% and so on, and so on...

And obviously twice the complexity and manufacturing cost vs. a single board sollution.

but you could physically have a single board, and 2-4 PowerVR GPUs on that board, the same board where the CPU, memory, audio and everything else sits.

Still more expensive than a single board/single chip sollution.

 

[Ailuros]

Lindbergh's Series 5 would have to be very old by now, but it is holding up remarkably as shown by the E3 presentation. Sega Sammy will probably adopt the newer Series 5 and beyond of Eurasia since they update their arcade hardware frequently, which might not require the development environment to have to undergo too much of a retooling in this case.

What "newer" Series5 and especialy beyond Eurasia? Pardon me but have I missed any episodes?

 

[Lazy8s]

Information from the investor board suggested that Series 5 was updated from the earlier implementation to make a new PowerVR family line, Eurasia, to join MBX in the company's product portfolio and would be ready by 2006. Sega Sammy tend to update their arcade hardware about every year with revisions or new systems, so PowerVR's latest high-end for that time would be something Sega Sammy should eventually be looking at.

 

[Betamax]

Grabbed from VFDC:

Gamefront.de is reporting that release lists for Japanese arcade operators contain an entry for VF5 slated for March 2006.
So far, Sega has neither confirmed the date nor officially announced VF5