Sony announcement/party 21st July Japan

[Acert93]

@Acert: I don't know about that. Regardless of anythign else Sony has said, I would be shocked if TGS did not include at least a decent PS3 contingent.

You could be right.

While specific games have yet to be announced, Gardner reveals that we can expect to hear something shortly. IGN will point out that both Sony and Microsoft will be holding press conferences [in Japan] later this month where next generation titles are expected to be shown in some capacity.

That said, from on investor standpoint, it is all about the money. The money is in PS2 this fall. Hyping up the next gen even more only gets people excited. They go to the store and see... no PS3, but a nice silky 360. Oh well, there are reasons I am not running a company like Sony

On a side note:

Additionally, Gardner reveals that EA plans on releasing twenty five next generation titles by March of 2006.

This coincides well with the 25 Xbox 360 titles in development (6 launch).

 

[passby]

Agree with Acert and patsu - we won't see much PS3 details. *A bit* maybe.

 

[one]

Even if Microsoft the company does nto have reason to sweat, the individuals fearing for their jobs over at XBox Japan certainly have reason.

It' likely as Microsoft Japan fired 34 people in the Xbox division in 2003, which is very unusual in a Japanese corporate environment where lifetime employment is assumed. Not only some were fired, but basically the management personnel who had been involved with the XBox 1 business in Japan were relegated to nowhere and new people were sent from the MS HQ.

 

[Qroach]

They're doubling-down on the money they're comitting to breaking open the Japanese market to their console, and at the very least, failure on the order of last gen would probably mean their pull-out from that market.

Well first what does "doubling down on the money" mean? We honestly don't know how much money MS is spending in that region, for all we know they could be spending the same they did last time and getting more exposure for the dollar. Failing for them in japan would be in profitable but I don't think it would cause them to pull out of japan. Certainly not if they could have success in europe and america...

Even if Microsoft the company does nto have reason to sweat, the individuals fearing for their jobs over at XBox Japan certainly have reason.

We weren't talking about individuals though. employees always have pressure on them. It doesn't matter if you're winning or losing. We were talking about companies as a whole.

Anyway, you asked the question of pressure and I think Sony had more pressure on them. Look at it this way, xbox 360 couldn't do much worse then xbox 1 already did in japan, and MS isn't starting off from scratch this time. They had 4 years to build relationships/trust/mojo/whatever.

 

[Qroach]

Bobber,

I don't think it's a wierd or strange way to look at it at all. To be honest, the unrealistic situation you proposed (regarding both sides doing "nothing") is what I'd call a strange way to look at this, considering how it's not a realsitc way to look at the situation.

Well that isn't necessarily true -- that is one way of looking at it... a strange way. If Sony does nothing, chances are it will still be the most popular in Japan -- if microsoft does nothing it will still be the same as it was before. Sony could do nothing out of the ordinary (thus no pressure) while Microsoft does everything and Sony will still likely beat the pants off Xbox2 in Japan.

I don't think that's a valid way to look at it, as both these companies aren't releasing new consoles to do "nothing". They will both do something to secure each different console market. If sony doesn't try hard enough to secure japan, I don't think it will secure itself.


Even last generation sony made a numbe rof moves to block MS out of Japan. They were worried about it then, but even more worried about it now. Sure, perhaps sony doesn't have to work as hard to keep the japanese market compared to how hard MS does to break in, but at the same time this is similar to professional sports.

Analogy:

Team sony won the world series last year and Team Xbox came in last place. Who has more pressure to win the world series this year? Team sony since they are the defending champions? Or Team Xbox since they lost every game last year?

My bet is team Sony since "everyone" expects them to win again, and thus they carry the weight of pressure. Who in professional baseball today carries teh weight of pressure? The blue jays that didn't do squat last year? or the Yankees that have it all and everything to lose? If you've watched baseball lately, the pressure really is on the yankees

 

[London Geezer]

Last time, with PS2, Sony had to do very little to secure anything, but they also were pretty much alone in the market for a year or so, and riding the goldmine that was PS1.

Comparisons with this generation shouldn't be made bacause all the variables have changed.

Sony will still be riding their goldmine, but won't have the luxury of being alone in the market for a year. Though i expect PS2 to keep outselling anything on the market for a few months even after the new consoles are released.

It's not fair to say "it all starts from 0 now" cause it definately won't, but MS really have a chance to make it big this time around, and they really can't afford to mess anything up. Neither can Sony, though i have the feeling they can afford to mess things a bit more than MS and stay safe.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

My bet is team Sony since "everyone" expects them to win again, and thus they carry the weight of pressure. Who in professional baseball today carries teh weight of pressure? The blue jays that didn't do squat last year? or the Yankees that have it all and everything to lose? If you've watched baseball lately, the pressure really is on the yankees

However, this is business and not a sports event. There's no cup for the winner, no penalty for the loser, other than making money. And regardless of whether a company is top of the pile or not, as long as they're making money that's all that really matters (despite their bluster).

The pressure for Sony to remain top dog has nothing to do with public perception, but their desire to make as much money as possible. That pressure exists no matter how well they did with previous hardwares. MS have exactly the same pressure - they want to maximise income and that's done by selling lots, which of course will mean selling more than your opponents otherwise they're cutting into your user base.

Looking past the PR waffle, each company will do what it can to maximise uptake regardless of opponents, save for counter-moves in marketting.

 

[Qroach]

Well of course the prize isn't a cup, it's making money. That's the obvious prize. however if you have more people buying your hardware & software, you have a greater chance of making "more" money. Please don't use the tired, nintendo is making as much money as sony despite selling less units argument to support what you are saying. That argument doesn't factor in where that money is coming from, as it's not strictly concerning home console sales (an area where sony is making more money then nintendo).

The pressure for Sony to remain top dog has nothing to do with public perception

I wasn't talking about "public" perception specifically. In regards to baseball, the yenkees put enough pressure on themselves internally. When I said "everyone" that applies to people inside the organization. Anyway i don't think internally they are under the same type of pressure.

From what I've seen and read based on comments from various magazines, interviews and such, Sony wants and expects they will dominate in this region, and MS wants to dominate too, but realistically they expects to do better, but not dominate in this region (they clearly realize its a tough region to crack, but they are making inroads). Sony losing any market share in this region could be considered a huge blow, meanwhile MS gaining a small share of market in this region could be considered a win for them. Say MS gains 20% market share in japan, up from less then one percent, and this 20% came form sony's chunk of the japanese market pie. Who do you think has more pressure on them, the person losing market share, or the person gaining market share?

Time will tell.

 

[London Geezer]

Who do you think has more pressure on them, the person losing market share, or the person gaining market share?

One only needs to keep their position, if they gain market share, it's a bonus.
The other needs to not only keep their position, but gain market share over the other. A lot too, by the sound of it.

If anything, the second one has more pressure.

 

[mckmas8808]

Who do you think has more pressure on them, the person losing market share, or the person gaining market share?

One only needs to keep their position, if they gain market share, it's a bonus.
The other needs to not only keep their position, but gain market share over the other. A lot too, by the sound of it.

If anything, the second one has more pressure.

I would have to agree with l-b on this one. It would be harder to gain market share than to keep the same market share as last generation.

 

[Carl B]

They're doubling-down on the money they're comitting to breaking open the Japanese market to their console, and at the very least, failure on the order of last gen would probably mean their pull-out from that market.

Well first what does "doubling down on the money" mean? We honestly don't know how much money MS is spending in that region, for all we know they could be spending the same they did last time and getting more exposure for the dollar. Failing for them in japan would be in profitable but I don't think it would cause them to pull out of japan. Certainly not if they could have success in europe and america...

By 'doubling down' I mean trying just as hard, if not harder, to break into the Japanese market this gen as they did last gen. It may not be common knowledge, but Microsoft spent a LOT of money on Japan last generation, all for not. Not to mention it was Japan that got all the best special bundles and limited-edition XBox colors, etc. None of that in the States.

But seriously, they are going all out there this gen. The Mistwalker move alone is costing them upwards of ~$100 million, and it's not even a first party studio. What if those two games don't end up pushing 360s? (in the numbers MS needs) I think it's more than they might pull out of Japan if they fail on the same order this time around; rather, I think it would be stupid of them to stay. The stigma that will have developed around the XBox name by that point in the territory will be unrecoverable. That being said though, it's true that this gen could see significant gains. It's just I think MS Japan is going to be the one rubbing their lucky rabbits feet at night vs Sony Japan.

Even if Microsoft the company does nto have reason to sweat, the individuals fearing for their jobs over at XBox Japan certainly have reason.

We weren't talking about individuals though. employees always have pressure on them. It doesn't matter if you're winning or losing. We were talking about companies as a whole.

Anyway, you asked the question of pressure and I think Sony had more pressure on them. Look at it this way, xbox 360 couldn't do much worse then xbox 1 already did in japan, and MS isn't starting off from scratch this time. They had 4 years to build relationships/trust/mojo/whatever.

I agree with your performance assessment for MS, but I disagree with your pressure assessment - I think MS is feeling the pressign need to turn things around in Japan, and they're tossign money at it. This is not to say that Sony's not also feeling pressure - or rather maybe, fear of the unknown.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I dunno, I really thik pretty much ALL the pressure is on Sony at this point.

MS is launching first with nothing less then a steller line-up of exlusives and launch games.

360 also definately, in my mind, take over North America as #1 console, so Sony wil lose out big-time in the worlds most lucrative market. Then there wil be a big battle in europe, and Japan is basically a bonus. Whatever they can get, they'll take.

And they won't do half bad in Japan, exlusives from Capcom, Konami, as well as Lost Odyssey and Blue-Dragon(already17th most wanted game in japan) wil make sure of that. There's also titles from Game Republic, Square Enix and Q Entertainment on the way. So they will sell a decent amount in Japan I'm sure.

I mean if your MS there is only upwards to go, Sony is sitting there facing a potentially crippling blow to it's status as top gaming system in teh world. I would say Sony is nervous, and MS is eager at this point.

 

[London Geezer]

I dunno, I really thik pretty much ALL the pressure is on Sony at this point.

MS is launching first with nothing less then a steller line-up of exlusives and launch games.

360 also definately, in my mind, take over North America as #1 console, so Sony wil lose out big-time in the worlds most lucrative market. Then there wil be a big battle in europe, and Japan is basically a bonus.

I mean if your MS there is only upwards to go, Sony is sitting there facing a potentially crippling blow to it's status as top gaming system in teh world. I would say Sony is nervous, and MS is eager at this point.

Nontheless, like i have said before, gaining market share is much harder to just keeping it.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I agree somewhat, but if that were going to stop XBOX it would have been last time when they had 0% market share, launched last, ahd a paltry line-up of games, and very very few good intiial exlusives.

With all that they manages to carve out a 20% market share, and what's more establish a real brand.

Now it's the exact opposite, established brand name, launching first, extremely good line-up of games, a boatload of amazing exlusives.

I don't see any logical argument to say MS won't drastically increase it's market share this time around.

 

[Carl B]

I dunno, I really thik pretty much ALL the pressure is on Sony at this point.

MS is launching first with nothing less then a steller line-up of exlusives and launch games.

360 also definately, in my mind, take over North America as #1 console, so Sony wil lose out big-time in the worlds most lucrative market. Then there wil be a big battle in europe, and Japan is basically a bonus.

I mean if your MS there is only upwards to go, Sony is sitting there facing a potentially crippling blow to it's status as top gaming system in teh world. I would say Sony is nervous, and MS is eager at this point.

Well I'm not talking about anything other than Japan though. I agree MS has a shot at becoming #1 in the US - though of course the also have a chance of not becoming #1 in the US.

When talking about Japan though, their incredible launch lineup, exclusives, etc. haven't seemed to muster more than 2% interest thus far - see what I'm saying? I just really think it's going to be an uphill battle. Doesn't mean they won't pull it off, but it's basically the first gen of games there they'll have to do it with, or I see Japanese dev support falling off fast. Afterall you don't make games for a system with a weak install base.

I should note also that the PS3 will probably be launching before those two Mistwalker RPG's are complete - could create for a diminished launch of those titles.

 

[London Geezer]

I agree somewhat, but if that were going to stop XBOX it would have been last time when they had 0% market share, launched last, ahd a paltry line-up of games, and very very few good intiial exlusives.

With all that they manages to carve out a 20% market share, and what's more establish a real brand.

Now it's the exact opposite, established brand name, launching first, extremely good line-up of games, a boatload of amazing exlusives.

I don't see any logical argument to say MS won't drastically increase it's market share this time around.

I'm not saying MS won't gain market share, that's a given, cause if they were to los any, they'd be in trouble.

I'm saying that the pressure of keeping a stable share of the market is less than the pressure of keeping a stable share of the market and at the same time gaining it.

 

[mckmas8808]

With all that they manages to carve out a 20% market share, and what's more establish a real brand.

It kills me when I hear people say this. You have to understand this, Sega is not making consoles anymore!!! In my eyes from overall available console sells MS only replaced Sega. Can one person here explain to me why this is not correct? If Sega was still around they would be fighting between MS and Nintendo. Sony on the other hand would still be selling there fair share.

Again 20% is easy to get when 33% of the hardware console makers drops out completely. Had they done this with Sega in the game then that would have been a remarkable stat.

 

[Qroach]

Nontheless, like i have said before, gaining market share is much harder to just keeping it.

loosing market share is easy. Gaining market share is hard. That I agree with, but I think some of you have part of the equation backwards. The original question was who has the most pressure on them. IMo, the people that can lose market share easily are the people that have the most pressure to keep it.

The above simply means that since market share is easier to lose, then you have to work harder to keep it. If market share is hard to lose, then you don't have to work to keep it.

 

[scooby_dooby]

In my eyes from overall available console sells MS only replaced Sega. Can one person here explain to me why this is not correct?

it's not correct because it didn't work that way. The Xbox didn't immediately sell 20 milion consoles, it's not like dreamcast buyers just switched over.

The build up was a slow one, based on the quality of titles released and live, nothing else. Most XBOX owners ownes a PS2 before at some point in time, from my experience. So it's not like dreamcast buyers switched over, it's PS2 owners who switched over.

There's no comparison to Sega, dreamcast didn't have the games, taht's what it all came down to. PS2 beat it with games, GTA, MGS3, GT3, these kiled dreamcast. x360 will have lots of exclusives and 3rd party support through the roof so there really is no comparison.

 

[mckmas8808]

it's not correct because it didn't work that way. The Xbox didn't immediately sell 20 milion consoles, it's not like dreamcast buyers just switched over.

The build up was a slow one, based on the quality of titles released and live, nothing else. Most XBOX owners ownes a PS2 before at some point in time, from my experience. So it's not like dreamcast buyers switched over, it's PS2 owners who switched over.

There's no comparison to Sega, dreamcast didn't have the games, taht's what it all came down to. PS2 beat it with games, GTA, MGS3, GT3, these kiled dreamcast. x360 will have lots of exclusives and 3rd party support through the roof so there really is no comparison.

No, no, no, no, no. I'm not comparing their situations together. I'm not saying that the Xbox will have the same feat as the Dreamcast. No way at all.

I'm saying that it's easier to get in the game on your first try around and get 20% market share when 1/3 of the pervious competition stop making consoles.

So it's not like dreamcast buyers switched over, it's PS2 owners who switched over.

I wouldn't say the PS2 owners has switched over. They just mearly wanted to buy a second console. If they were switching over that much then why is the PS2 still selling more units per month in every territory?