G70 Benchmarks @500/350

This was posted on June 17th Opa-Ages.com:

Got to talk to an old friend of mine from HS. Hes an AI programmer. He designed the orginal Splinter Cell's AI and the AI for Deus Ex 2 and Thief 3. Bastard even had a level from Splinter Cell named after him. Long story short, hes currently working at Midway on next gen stuff. Hes got working specs and kits on both X360 and PS3. He says X360 will hold up just fine against PS3. It even edges it out in some categories. But all in all he says its gonna be extremely difficult to see a difference in the systems. He says the only thing that may bite Sony in the "graphical" ass is the lack of anti-aliasing. Other than that hes under strict "we will fire your ass if you talk" NDA about what hes working on so don't ask.
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http://opa-ages.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=34543&hl=

Definitaly gives credance to what Dave is showing us here. Not sure what to make of this... A $400 PS3 without a hard drive is looking less and less attractive. Well at least it plays Blue-Rays huh? :rolleyes:
 
Hes got working specs and kits on both X360 and PS3. He says X360 will hold up just fine against PS3. It even edges it out in some categories.
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My understanding is that most devs are actually only now really learning how to usefully program those CELL SPE's.. Second how does he know how they stack up agains another when both systems are still in Beta stage :?: [/quote]
 
Shouldn't the memory be at 700mhz instead of 350mhz?

Maybe I'm just not thinking straight.


700mhz 128bit bus gives ~22.6gb/s, right? So says both MS and Sony from their specs.

1200mhz 256bit bus gives ~38gb/s, right? Thats 2x the bus width and 1.7x the speed of the 700mhz -- that should be 3.4x the bandwidth, no? If the RSX is getting 22.6gb bandwidth out of of 350mhz ddr 128bit memory they are doing some crazy magic tricks.

the 700mhz number has to be 700DDR (1400mhz effective) or the numbers just don't make any sense at all.

Does samsung or whoever is supplying even make a 350mhz GDDR3?
 
Shouldn't the memory be at 700mhz instead of 350mhz?
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Dave is using a g70 for his numbers . The g70 has a 256bit bus that gives twice the bandwidth of a 128bit bus with the same ram .

So if you have 1ghz ram (2ghz effective) on a 128bit bus you would only need 500mhz(1ghz effective) ram on a 256bit bus to get the same bandwidth .

So dave clocked the g70 at 350mhz on a 256bit bus . If we double that we get 700mhz ram on a 128bit bus. Which is what the rsx will have .

However the rsx will be able to acess the xdr ram but how effective and how much bandwidth that will give is up in the air
 
jvd said:
Shouldn't the memory be at 700mhz instead of 350mhz?
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Dave is using a g70 for his numbers . The g70 has a 256bit bus that gives twice the bandwidth of a 128bit bus with the same ram .

So if you have 1ghz ram (2ghz effective) on a 128bit bus you would only need 500mhz(1ghz effective) ram on a 256bit bus to get the same bandwidth .

So dave clocked the g70 at 350mhz on a 256bit bus . If we double that we get 700mhz ram on a 128bit bus. Which is what the rsx will have .

However the rsx will be able to acess the xdr ram but how effective and how much bandwidth that will give is up in the air
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Ok, I see now. Not sure what I was thinking (maybe that was the problem?)
 
It looks like 4x AA and 8x AF might be possible for games that are more processing (shader or CPU) bound than bandwidth bound. That's good news. Certainly AF looks like a shoo-in for the PS3.
 
Inane_Dork said:
It looks like 4x AA and 8x AF might be possible for games that are more processing (shader or CPU) bound than bandwidth bound. That's good news. Certainly AF looks like a shoo-in for the PS3.
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af hasn't been a problem on games since the 9700pro really esp at 8x .

The question really is , if the rsx can do hdr + fsaa will it have enough bandwidth ?

Looking at the numbers i don't think so. Esp not at 1080p
 
jvd said:
Shouldn't the memory be at 700mhz instead of 350mhz?
Click to expand...

Dave is using a g70 for his numbers . The g70 has a 256bit bus that gives twice the bandwidth of a 128bit bus with the same ram .

So if you have 1ghz ram (2ghz effective) on a 128bit bus you would only need 500mhz(1ghz effective) ram on a 256bit bus to get the same bandwidth .

So dave clocked the g70 at 350mhz on a 256bit bus . If we double that we get 700mhz ram on a 128bit bus. Which is what the rsx will have .

However the rsx will be able to acess the xdr ram but how effective and how much bandwidth that will give is up in the air
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Thanks for explaining that to him, I was too lazy :oops:
 
jvd said:
Inane_Dork said:
Certainly AF looks like a shoo-in for the PS3.
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af hasn't been a problem on games since the 9700pro really esp at 8x .
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Some guy mentioned the adaptive anisotropic filtering with C1... what's that? (I think it was the Holmdahl Interview at TXB)


What about anisotropic filtering? What would be the standard and what other levels of anisotropic filtering will developers be able to achieve in real world situations?

Todd Holmdahl: We support a custom adaptive anisotropic filtering. So, the “levelâ€￾ is not really relevant here.
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Dave, do you know anything specific about this :?:
 
Alstrong said:
jvd said:
Inane_Dork said:
Certainly AF looks like a shoo-in for the PS3.
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af hasn't been a problem on games since the 9700pro really esp at 8x .
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Some guy mentioned the adaptive anisotropic filtering with C1... what's that? (I think it was the Holmdahl Interview at TXB)
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ati has been using it for a long itme . It apeared on the r200 or 8500. Its been improved upon each time . Its basicly af that is applied at diffrent lvls depending on the angle. At certian angles where anistropic filtering isn't needed at the maximum amount set . So at 45 degree angle may only get 2x ansio instead of 8x ansio .

Its a way to lower the over head of anistropic filtering . I believe nvidia has a feature like this too that first showed up in the nv30 but looked really bad and was improved upon and looked good in the nv40
 
Essentially this just shows the worst case -- RSX will have at least this much bandwidth and all the way up to around ~40gb/s in some cases. Add another 50mhz over the test core (although that won't help with bandwidth limited things) and its not as bad.

AA at 720p/1080i shouldn't be much of a prob it seems, at 1080p I don't think we're going to see it. Isn't this sort of what people were expecting? I'm not really convinced we need it at 1080p even, playing games in 1600x1200 (which is about the same pixels -- slightly less) don't really require

This also doesn't take into account CPU limitations -- we don't yet really know how CPU limited the Cell will be compared to this test (although bandwidth will still be the problem).
 
OK, so (surprisingly) no impact at 10x7 and not so bad at 12x10. That's promising for AA on RSX ... with FC and SC:CT-level GPU loads. I'm not sure how that would relate to next-gen games, though. The higher shader loads of next-gen games should suck up more bandwidth, no?
 
3roxor said:
Hes got working specs and kits on both X360 and PS3. He says X360 will hold up just fine against PS3. It even edges it out in some categories.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that most devs are actually only now really learning how to usefully program those CELL SPE's.. Second how does he know how they stack up agains another when both systems are still in Beta stage :?:
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Deano knows. But then again he knows everything. ;)
 
But both FC and SC:CT are games that are on, or will be on, the current gen XBOX, the PC graphics may be much better (I don't know) but surely they can't be representative of the graphical workload that will be found in next-gen games. Right?

This graph shows that the G70 takes a big performance hit with with AA, it's just not visible with older games, or newer games with lower resolutions.

So, for now it's not showing much of a hit a hit below 720p, but in next-gen games will this be the case?
 
since when will PS3 run PC-Games? While surely useful for discussion, I think some people are looking too far into these numbers...
 
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