Nite_Hawk said:I'm a CG artist too.
Nite_Hawk
And i will be one day.
New Tim Sweeny interview
- Thread starter mckmas8808
- Start date
And i will be one day.
I'm gonna be an astornaut!
To be fair ,i think (IMHO) Laa-Yosh not only underestimate realtime possibilities to fake or approximate things,and use tricks.But he also did some disturbing or over stretched assertions.
For example , the motorstorm trailer.
First ,there is probably only one light source +ambiant in that trailer.
second , there is not need for complex fluid dynamics nor 3d volumetric particle to achieve anything in that trailer.
Third ,the helicopter shadow appear only for 2-3 frames ,and a closer look reveals what looks very much like a simplified geometry projected.
then ,i don't see what's the trouble with the vegetation,since it's mostly a desert .
In fact ,the most impressive feature in motorstorm trailer is probably some kind of displacement mapping for the wheels that dig in the tracks.
As for killzone ,i know for a fact ,that they outsourced most of the graphical data for killzone 1 and won't change that for KZ2 nor KZ3,and also that they have been working for 15-17 months on nextgen ps3 technology ,built partially upon KZ1.
That said ,i don't care if both trailer are RT or not ,or even partially .
For example , the motorstorm trailer.
First ,there is probably only one light source +ambiant in that trailer.
second , there is not need for complex fluid dynamics nor 3d volumetric particle to achieve anything in that trailer.
Third ,the helicopter shadow appear only for 2-3 frames ,and a closer look reveals what looks very much like a simplified geometry projected.
then ,i don't see what's the trouble with the vegetation,since it's mostly a desert
.In fact ,the most impressive feature in motorstorm trailer is probably some kind of displacement mapping for the wheels that dig in the tracks.
As for killzone ,i know for a fact ,that they outsourced most of the graphical data for killzone 1 and won't change that for KZ2 nor KZ3,and also that they have been working for 15-17 months on nextgen ps3 technology ,built partially upon KZ1.
That said ,i don't care if both trailer are RT or not ,or even partially .
mckmas8808 said:
You are not the butt of a joke. You have discussed the KZ thing more than anyone else. And when Laa-Yosh has brought up technical questions or issues you have always returned to the Sony PR.
That is fine... once or twice. But when actually discussing, "How did they do that in realtime" on a 3D technology forum and constantly going back to PR defeats the purpose of discussion.
Laa-Yosh was being dissed for not bringing examples *in this thread* and that is not fair to the 2+ week discussion. He HAS brought examples, and I understand his frustration. mckmas8088, it is one thing to believe the PR, but it is another thing to railroad every thread with "Nah Nah Nah, Sony PR says you are wrong".
I myself have questions about HOW they did certain things in some of the movies. Night_hawk gave an idea on the particles (wether it is feasible is another Q). That is constructive. But most of this debate, when you jump into it, goes right back to PR quotes. Most of us have been around long enough NOT to trust PR. Especially when they are evasive and wont answer a straight question (i.e. Sony never said, "That is realtime ingame graphics and those are the graphics and IQ you will see ingame". When asked about the game they say "You will play that" but that is not very specific).
Anyhow, I was explaining to Mr. W why Laa-Yosh's frustration. And if you went back to all your posts where you explicitly mention Sony's PR and KZ being real and balance that with how many times you have actually given information on HOW that can be realtime you will see why he is frustrated.
marconelly!
Veteran
This is true. I understand that Laa-yosh is working in CGI industry, and knows a lot, and I respect his opinion and points he brings, but still on some ocasions even I have noticed that he's not exactly on the cutting edge of what's possible and what's not in realtime.
For example: he said a week or so ago that ambient occlusion is one of the things you can see in KZ trailer, and that's not possible in realtime. Then I remember someone posted a paper that explains how such effect can be achieved in realtime (probably using some shortcuts or tricks, I wouldn't know). Then yesterday I read the interview with peope from Remedy who are making Alan Wake, and they actually mentioned they use ambient occlusion in their engine, and I also think DeanoC chimed in saying/hinting they use that in their Heavenly Sword.
marconelly! said:
To his credit it's very difficult to stay cutting edge in this industry. Things that a year ago seemed impossible to do quickly you find out someone not only has figured out how to do, but is using it in their upcoming product.
Photon mapping was kind of like this. The only warning people had was if they read the Radiance mailing lists where Henrik talks to Greg Ward about global illumination problems. Who knew he'd stumble on to a relatively quick way to do caustics?
Still, I really wouldn't be suprised either way with the killzone video. We've already seen heavenly sword, and having seen that, I don't think killzone (or something close to it) is out of the realm of possibility even if it was pre-rendered.
Nite_Hawk
