Xbox 360/AA/AF

[Natoma]

Now that the specs are revealed, can someone explain to me why, at a minimum, 4xAA/16xAF is not default on for this console? At 720p, with 3 PPC cores running at 3.2Ghz, and a custom graphics chip that looks to be at least twice as fast as our current fastest graphics processors, why in the world are we still being treated with games that lack AA and AF?

Shouldn't that be default with all that available power?

 

[DemoCoder]

Isn't it? I got the impression that AA is turned on by default. 2x should essentially be free with the eDRAM, and 4x might eat one cycle. On the other handle, having so little eDRAM, 4xFSAA with 720p or 1080i might eat up too must ram, so there's not enough left for HDR, MRT, and other stuff.

I hope MS hasn't fallen into that wrongheaded belief that high-res means you don't need AA. 720p and 1080i isn't going to eliminate shimmer and jaggies.

 

[Natoma]

Watching PDZ tonight, AA wasn't enabled. And it didn't look like AF was enabled either.

I'm talking at the machine level. Not in the games themselves. In other words, the hardware should automatically force 4xAA/16xAF in every game.

 

[jvd]

Why just the x360 , should have asked for all next gen systems . whore !

 

[Natoma]

We only know the specs for the xbox 360 for sure. We don't know the PS3 specs and we don't know the Revolution specs. I want to deal with what is known fact now. Not speculation.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Do you think that they would show crappy screens on purpose? Lower your expectations then BAM! hit you with some good graphics....I mean....whats with the screens from different companies around the NET compared to PDZ. I think either these are XBox 360 games that where rushed or they purposley didn't show what the system can actually do.

 

[DemoCoder]

I expect all next-gen systems to *minimally* have 720p, 2xRGMS, and 16xAF enabled. To not support HDTV and mimimal AA is IMHO a big LOSER for me.

 

[V3]

Yes but not at the expense of high frame rate. I can live with abit of jag here and there. But low frame rate, is motion sickness inducing for me.

 

[BOOMEXPLODE]

Judging by the show tonight the frame rate in Gears of War is awful. I could put up with less definition in the image if it meant getting more than 4 FPS!

 

[Natoma]

Yes but not at the expense of high frame rate. I can live with abit of jag here and there. But low frame rate, is motion sickness inducing for me.

But my point precisely is, games on tv's today either display at 30fps or 60fps. An x850xt pe with 4xAA/16xAF will run the most taxing games today, whether they be Doom 3, Half Life 2, Far Cry, or whatever, at 1024x768, around 70-120fps depending on the game. In the case of a tri-core cpu at 3.2Ghz and a graphics processor that's at least twice the speed, I'd think that AA/AF should be a given at 720p.

Most certainly at 480i/p.

 

[Natoma]

I expect all next-gen systems to *minimally* have 720p, 2xRGMS, and 16xAF enabled. To not support HDTV and mimimal AA is IMHO a big LOSER for me.

Yea, and unfortunately it doesn't look like this will be minimum spec for xbox 360. Hopefully there's more info come E3.

 

[quest55720]

I have no doubt that many 360 games will have AA. I just hope that many games use AF. Everyone always talks about AA but AF is just as important to me.

 

[Acert93]

I believe 2x AA is required in every game.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I believe 2x AA is required in every game.

Correct.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/613/613257p1.html

"We have four must-haves for Xbox 360 games," said the subburnt, well-muscled Moore. "First, every game must have 720p minimum, and some developers want to go higher, which is fine by us. Second, every game must have 16x9 with no letterboxing allowed. Third, Every game will support Dolby 5.1 surround sound, and fourth, every game will will be anti-aliased with our built-in 2X anti-aliasing tools."

 

[DemoCoder]

2x makes sense, since it should for all intents and purposes, be "free". But why stop there? They should use temporal antialiasing, mandate a minimum refresh rate of 60hz, and use 2x3T.

 

[Natoma]

2x is better than nothing, but not by much. :?

No word on AF though.

 

[fresh]

Isn't it? I got the impression that AA is turned on by default. 2x should essentially be free with the eDRAM, and 4x might eat one cycle. On the other handle, having so little eDRAM, 4xFSAA with 720p or 1080i might eat up too must ram, so there's not enough left for HDR, MRT, and other stuff.

I hope MS hasn't fallen into that wrongheaded belief that high-res means you don't need AA. 720p and 1080i isn't going to eliminate shimmer and jaggies.

720p is a requirement. When you work out the numbers, you'll find that you can't do 2xAA @ 720p with 10mb edram. Doh!

Well, that's not totally true.. you can, and they sorta expect you to, but it's a PITA.

 

[kyleb]

They should use temporal antialiasing, mandate a minimum refresh rate of 60hz, and use 2x3T.

3T filckers bad at 60hz, but I'd be really pleased if theyl use 2T as it is free and it would mean everything gets vsync.

 

[DemoCoder]

Well, if you keep the frontbuffer in main ram, you can do it, or alternatively, get rid of stencil or alpha . Don't forget FB/HyperZ MSAA compression too.

It doesn't bode well for HDR + AA tho, or HDR usage at all. 720p HDR = 10.54mb. 720p HDR + AA = not possible.

 

[fresh]

Well, if you keep the frontbuffer in main ram, you can do it, or alternatively, get rid of stencil or alpha . Don't forget FB/HyperZ MSAA compression too.

It doesn't bode well for HDR + AA tho, or HDR usage at all. 720p HDR = 10.54mb. 720p HDR + AA = not possible.

Can't get rid of stencil or alpha. 32 bit render target is the minimum. Not so sure about compression. HyperZ is in addition to a 32bit z/stencil-buffer.

Hidef + AA + HDR is possible even without enough edram ram.