how much anti-aliasing is Tekken Tag PS2 using ?

[Megadrive1988]

I most of us know, for the U.S. Playstation2 version of Tekken Tag Tournament, Namco was gracious enough to add anti-aliasing, thus giving the game a pretty much 'jaggy' free look. with Tekken 4 and the just-released Tekken 5, there is no AA, as far as I can tell. not that T4 and T5 look bad, but clearly not as smoothed out as the U.S. PS2 TTT released in fall 2000.

my question of course, is what method of anti-aliasing did Namco use for U.S. PS2 TTT, and how many samples (i.e. 2x, 4x) of AA is being used ??



hey, assuming the new PS3 is compatable with PS2 or emulates PS2 and therefore can play the U.S. PS2 TTT ....and with PS3, you can turn 'on' FSAA (much like you could turn on texture filtering in PS2 for PS1 games) thus adding PS3 anti-aliasing to what is already coded into the game for PS2, imagine how smooth it will look then. does that make any sense, or do things *not* work that way?

 

[talyn99]

yes, you are right, i thought that I was the only one who noticed TTT, looked much nicer.

 

[Shinjisan]

In Tekken4 there is anti aliasing,you can even choose to switch it on/off.
Maybe it's not as effective as the one featured in Tekken Tag but is there.

Anyway to answer your question about PS3 I could make an hypothesis.
If PS3 had EE+GS each game could be rendered as it's progammed to through this chip,then the result passed to the Nvidia GPU which could offer the ability to apply in post processing a few effects on its own.
Of course since each PS2 game is programmed to be rendered in its own way with different tecniques things won't be that easy.
I doubt that adding in a game like Tekken Tag an other pass of anti aliasing will result in a better image but on the contrary it could produce a much more blurred image.
So I think it will be difficult to have extra features that will work correctly and will improve every game as for example the texture filtering for Psone games in PS2.

 

[Megadrive1988]

actually my main questions were simply about TTT running on Playstation2. the way it was in 2000 and still today. how many samples of AA is being used, and what *type* of AA is it.

 

[Deepak]

What? TTT looks better than T5? Then I need to get both.

 

[London Geezer]

I was pretty sure it wasn't AA, but just a flicker filter. But i could be wrong.

 

[Megadrive1988]

actually, I am pretty certain PS2 Tekken Tag is using anti-aliasing, and not merely a flicker filter. Tekken 5 uses just a flicker filter, AFAIK. not sure about Tekken 4, but probably about the same as Tekken 5.

 

[BriefcasemanX]

TTUWP

 

[Megadrive1988]

TTUWP

and that stands for ?

 

[marconelly!]

I'm pretty sure neither TTT, T4 or T5 have anti aliasing, but they all have flicker fixer. In T4 and T5 you can disable this flicker fixer for a sharper but jaggier image. T4 and T5 also support progressive scan, so I really don't see how TTT could be better looking as far as image quality.

 

[Megadrive1988]

I'm pretty sure neither TTT, T4 or T5 have anti aliasing, but they all have flicker fixer. In T4 and T5 you can disable this flicker fixer for a sharper but jaggier image. T4 and T5 also support progressive scan, so I really don't see how TTT could be better looking as far as image quality.

check out the U.S. TTT. it really seems to have AA. whereas you can see the jaggies in both T4 and T5

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/163/163946p1.html

Even before the brilliant coders at Namco redeemed both Tekken Tag Tournament and the PlayStation 2 by implementing anti-aliasing for the U.S. release of the game, it still looked pretty damn good. A very slight jaggy problem aside, the Japanese version of Tekken Tag already looked fantastic and it was always a very impressive game visually. It's just that now with the anti-aliasing in full effect, the game looks a lot smoother and much more polished

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/133/133946p1.html

anti-aliased, non-flickering version?

final North American version in all of its glory, flicker-free, anti-aliased

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/163/163946p1.html

Even before the brilliant coders at Namco redeemed both Tekken Tag Tournament and the PlayStation 2 by implementing anti-aliasing for the U.S. release of the game, it still looked pretty damn good. A very slight jaggy problem aside, the Japanese version of Tekken Tag already looked fantastic and it was always a very impressive game visually. It's just that now with the anti-aliasing in full effect, the game looks a lot smoother and much more polished.

Flicker-free and anti-aliased, TTT is a tremendously good-looking game. The texture work is unbelievable and you won't find many games with more realistic looking textures in the 3D environments.

http://www.elecplay.com/reviews_article.php?article=4383

. The game has been given a complete makeover since its release in Japan. All of the jagged lines are now gone.

Namco gave Tekken Tag a complete visual makeover and added anti-aliasing

http://www.gaming-age.com/cgi-bin/reviews/review.pl?sys=ps2&game=ttt

While the Japanese version of Tekken Tag Tournament (that was released shortly after the Japanese PS2 launch) suffered from slight anti-aliasing problems, Namco put work into adding full-screen anti-aliasing into the US release.

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:...w.html+"Tekken+Tag"++Namco+Aliasing&hl=en

The game, with anti-aliasing to remove the jaggy edges from the Japanese version is simply stunning.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/data/gamehomepages/game_homepage_id.php(que)id=1883

PS2 TEKKEN TAG ANTI-ALIASED FOR EUROPE

Tekken Tag Tournament will hit Europe with full-screen anti-aliasing, so there won't be a jagged edge in sight. There is a flip-side to this however

The latest version of Tekken will emerge on PlayStation 2 this November showing full-screen anti-aliasing. For fight fans in the audience, that means Namco's graphics should be second to none. Unfortunately no 60Hz option has been included, so the game will run slower than the Japanese/US code.

the U.S. PS2 TTT seems to lack the jagged edges that even flicker-filtered PS2 and Gamecube (and Xbox) games have.

while it *is* probably possible that U.S. PS2 TTT does not have any anti-aliasing, that it is merely using some sort of flicker-filter fixer thingy, I lean toward believing that Namco did indeed implement some sort of anti-alaising, even if it was only edge-AA and not true FSAA.

 

[phat]

TTT US only has a flicker filter. T5 is capable of running in progressive, where there would be no flicker filter, so maybe that's why you think it looks jaggier? (T5 has a flicker filter, but only for interlaced output, obviously.)

Most T5 screenshots would probably have been taken in one of its progressive modes, and would lack flicker filter too, and hence would look jaggier than screenshots of TTT US, which didn't have a mode without flicker filter.

I agree that, in some ways, TTT is still one of the best looking Tekkens, but not because of jaggies (or lack thereof...)

 

[Ug Lee]

TTT on PS2 has nicer character models, but the backgrounds in T5 are superior I believe. Artistically speaking T5 is probably my favourite looking 3D fighter. Namco just hit a sweet spot with it.

 

[corysama]

my question of course, is what method of anti-aliasing did Namco use for U.S. PS2 TTT, and how many samples (i.e. 2x, 4x) of AA is being used ??

hey, assuming the new PS3 is compatable with PS2 or emulates PS2 and therefore can play the U.S. PS2 TTT ....and with PS3, you can turn 'on' FSAA (much like you could turn on texture filtering in PS2 for PS1 games) thus adding PS3 anti-aliasing to what is already coded into the game for PS2, imagine how smooth it will look then. does that make any sense, or do things *not* work that way?

Many PS2 games implement AA by rendering a full 640x448 backbuffer (yes 448, not 480) and then copying it to the 640x224 front buffer during the vertical blank. The bilinear filtering averages two every rows into one row giving an effective 2X vertical AA. Their really isn't enough VRAM for much more.

The PS3 would have a rough time trying to re-interpret drawing commands into a higher-rez buffer because the devs have documentation on the path that ever bit takes on its way through VRAM. Based on this, they often do maniacal hacks based on obscure side-effects of the hardware's implementation.

If the PS3 does have backwards compatibility, I expect they will do it the same way they did it for the PS2: By effectively including a physical copy of the older hardware as a sub-component in the new machine.

 

[Fafalada]

The PS3 would have a rough time trying to re-interpret drawing commands into a higher-rez buffer

It would work so long as you can scale "everything" up - GS memory is unified so trying to be "clever" by attempting to identify rendering buffers separate from textures would be insane.
So long as you can afford to scale the whole VRam up(ie. you'd need at least 16MB eDram for 4xSS), it should be pretty straightforward.

Based on this, they often do maniacal hacks based on obscure side-effects of the hardware's implementation.

Well, you'd have to mimmick behaviour of GS memory mapping conversions. This one is not trivial - but I think it's within capacity of fragment shaders to do.

The other benefit to GS emulation is of course being able to force anisotropic over bilinear (could be an option just like bilinear is for PS1 in PS2), which would do wonders for improving IQ in vast majority of PS2 games, even with no other enhancements.

 

[Tysan]

Tekken 5 looks better than Tekken Tag, not that its leagues better but easily noticiable, on the other side Tekken Tag looks better than Tekken 4.

 

[Legend]

Tekken 5's visuals are amazing, to say the least. IGN said it looks like a high end Xbox game. it is also said to be the best looking 3D fighter.
I am personally waiting to get the game in a couple of weeks, so I can't say how exactly good does it look. in any case, it is remarkable

 

[London Geezer]

I was right then it was a flicker filter...

 

[marconelly!]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was flicker fixer. Term "Anti Aliased" was and still is heavily misued in print and web media when it comes to console games.

 

[London Geezer]

We're just too clever. We're above the press