Congrats, Kyle. While I doubt that the Phantom thing is quite as black and white as many make it out to be (personally, I think the article might have been unfair but certainly was not libelous in any way), it's an important moral victory for web sites, which is especially important given the amount of attention blogging is receiving lately. Hell, one blog that I have some familiarity with got threatened with legal action for a very similar series of articles in about the past week...
Oh yeah, [H] won against Infinium yesterday....
- Thread starter digitalwanderer
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Nice bait what? Oh, you mean flamebait?MuFu said:Nice bait.
He did crack a "joke" along those lines you know, I mentioned it just to illustrate what I was referring to, any other possible agendas are entirely your own invention... FYI, he's also made a bunch of "special olympics" type comments over the years (I'm sure you know what I mean by that), but maybe that's also "baiting". Anyway, why am I explaining myself to you? This is off-topic.EOD.
Guden Oden said:Nice bait what? Oh, you mean flamebait?MuFu said:Nice bait.
EOD.
See I posted that before I realised "dyslectic" is the US spelling of "dyslexic". I thought you were trying to be funee.
I'm sorry, but shouldn't that be spelled "cixelsyd"? :|MuFu said:See I posted that before I realised "dyslectic" is the US spelling of "dyslexic". I thought you were trying to be funee.
(Sorry, I couldn't resist!)
Which reminds me: what does an agnostic dyslexic with insomnia do?
Sits up all night and wonders if there is a dog...
BADA-BOOM.......ching!
John Reynolds said:
No rant, as it's hardly worth the trouble...
But I will say...it's amusing to see what some characterize as a "victory" (esp. frgmstr as he does here), because all I see is that IL has dropped its suit against [H]. Generally in civil court cases of this type a "winner" can only be declared in one of two ways. Either a judge or jury reaches a finding and a judgment is levied against the defendant, or else a settlement between the parties is reached and the case summarily dismissed on account of the defendant and litigant coming to a formal agreement which ususally includes, but does not have to, financial renumeration of some kind.
Therefore, I would characterize this as [H] being "let off the hook" as opposed to a victory of any kind for either party, since no finding was reached by a civil court and no settlement between the parties occurred, hence no one can literally be said to have "won." Looks like to me that IL simply got tired of the whole thing and dropped its suit unilaterally and quite independently of any civil court decree or judgment against any party or in favor of any party.
There certainly were "winners" here, though. As I said from the start, the lawyers are the winners and the nitwits on both sides who listened to them in the first place were the losers, without a doubt, as only the lawyers involved in these proceedings will pocket anything from them, of course...
So at long last I think we can say, "cut, print, and wrap it," to signal the end of one of the most ridiculous and lunatic PR demonstrations it's ever been my displeasure to observe...
Thank goodness.Now, all that remains to be seen is whether IL is populated by the crooks and charlatans [H] has constantly implied, or whether there will actually be a Phantom console after all. I see it this way: regardless of the suits being dropped by both sides, [H] can only legitmately claim "victory" if the Phantom never materializes; but if it does then I can't see how [H] should do more than apologize humbly for its crass pomposity...
Having to pay $200k + is a "win"?
OK, heh, I guess I'll bite...
If walking away with nothing but a $200k + legal bill is your idea of "as clear a win as it gets," then I guess you and I have distinctly different views of what "winning" means... If that's a "clear win" for [H] then I shudder to think what [H] must've anticipated would happen to it in the case of a "clear loss"...
This is the statement I read on whereisphantom.com, and how I interpret it (which isn't always easy, considering the source of the statement here is decidedly very prejudiced, and so it sounds as if the Federal suit filed by IL, any associated Federal countersuit filed by [H], and the Texas state court suit filed by [H] and any associated countersuit filed by IL are all lumped together in the following wip.com summary of IL's Federal court motions):
Here's how I interpret those comments:
1) The motions were filed by IL in US District Court (not in Texas state court, where the [H] "preemptive" suit was filed, remember), and are wholly the result of IL's elective decisions relative to the suit IL filed in Federal court in response presumably to the preemptive suit [H] filed against IL before that in Texas state court. In granting the motions, the US District Court is not ordering IL to do anything but is to the contrary honoring IL's wishes as pleaded in those motions. The court is honoring IL's wishes as expressed in the motions to drop the suit as opposed to making a ruling in the suit(s) itself, is how it appears to me.
Note wip.com's use of the phrase "that essentially relents" in the initial paragraph quoted above. Translating the confused attempt at legalese, it means that "although this is not precisely what the IL motions stated, this in a nutshell is what it means for [H]..." So from the start what we see there is merely a spin on the facts as presented by an obviously biased source, wip.com, which has often stated its desire that, regardless of the facts, [H] be found "right" and that [H] "win" the suit. Hopefully, there'll be few who disagree with me about that in regards to the pretenses of wip.com as to its "objectivity" in the matter...
Remember that the Prayer for Relief as quoted "word for word" by wip.com above is apparently the "prayer" of IL, not [H], and IL is asking for the "relief," not [H] (since of course the motions were filed by IL, not by [H], according to the wip.com account, which is all I have to go on.)
(Before I continue I'll say that wip.com's use of the terms "plaintiff" and "defendant" are not always as clear to me as I think they should be...)
A)This sounds to me as if IL has thought the better of its "damages" claims against [H] and understands how the attendant publicity has elevated IL's public profile markedly beyond what it was before [H] began its attacks, and how there are clearly two sides to an evaluation of that publicity--in one sense it could be considered extremely negative, but in another it could be considered extremely beneficial to IL. This is a position I've personally held since the start, and so it isn't suprising to see IL reach it (as it is so obvious.) I'm surprised it took them so long, however... For instance, the publicity doesn't seem to have dissuaded companies like SUN and nVidia from doing business with IL, and talking about it publicly, etc.
B) Likewise, here, IL has dropped its suit with the attendant claims for damages or statutory relief.
C) IL agrees to pay [H] its costs incurred, excluding [H]'s attorney's fees, which reportedly according to [H] represent the lion's share of its expenses thus far, and currently top $200k. (I'll also guess that the Court will only grant this motion of IL's if the Court and possibly [H] , too, agree with IL that [H]'s attorney's fees are solely [H]'s responsibility.)
D)This sounds like IL is pleading in the motions that IL be granted "such other and further relief, at law or in equity, to which it (as defendant) may be justly entitled," that is, if wip.com's use of the terms "defendant" and "plaintiff" as quoted above is literally consistent.
OK, so where exactly is [H]'s victory here? Sorry but I can't see it, and the only victors apparent to me are the attorneys on both sides.
I mean, if [H] is declaring that it "won" by "only" having to pay $200k+ because IL dropped the suit before [H] would have received a court judgment against it for millions of $--then, OK, I can see how [H] might prefer to think it "won" here... (But then, in order to think like that you'd also have to consider yourself "guilty as charged," wouldn't you?) But otherwise, I cannot think of what "victory" [H] is referring to.
Likewise, the fact that IL dropped its Federal suit appears to undercut any basis for [H]'s state-court suit, since the Texas suit depended on the existence of the Florida suit in order to have any merit at all. (I said from the start that it was foolish to go to court to try to have a company banned from suing you before it had sued you on the grounds that you considered the possibility of a lawsuit a nuisance... Heck, if that was a legitimate legal premise every company would seek to have any lawsuits against it prohibited in advance and the result would be that there would be no lawsuits possible between companies. Never mind that the concept sounds wonderful to me, the lawyers would never permit something like that to fly. I mean, honestly, who but a lawyer might ever imagine that *suing* another company to prevent a lawsuit might even be a logical proposition in the first place? "Let's engage in a lawsuit to prevent a lawsuit" is an axiom only a lawyer could understand and love...)
Again, my own personal opinion is that if IL folds before the Phantom ships then only that will consititute a victory for [H] in the sense that it will become apparent that [H]'s scathing attacks on the company and its officers were justified from the start. However, should the Phantom ship with software from SUN and hardware from nVidia inside, then at that point I would think a hearty "I'm sorry I was so wrong about you" love note from [H] to IL, preferrably plastered on the front page of [H], would be the only order of the day conceivable.
Last but not least, did you see the way wip.com unashamedly attributed what it *admitted* was an "anonymous email" to Robbins himself, as if to say, "Even if he didn't actually write it at all, we here at wip.com believe it's exactly what he would have written, the scumbag"?... I tell you, even in its hey-day the USSR couldn't have done better propaganda!... I'm still pondering how it is that people who live in "$3,000,000 houses," as [H] chose to characterize the matter, could be so horrible at spelling?... Oh, well, I guess that sort of analysis is too demanding for the wip.com website staff to engage in, I suppose. But it certainly crossed my mind, I'll admit... At least I can but hope that in the event the Phantom console finally ships that the central currently unanswered question posed by the web site "whereisphantom.com" will have at last been answered, and that from henceforth wip.com will answer the question it raised by including a link to IL on its front page, accessible through the following text: "It's right here!"
Heh...
This is all just my airmchair opinion, but I honestly can't find anything worng with it... This has all been a lot of fun for all of us in the airmchairs, but seriously, I imagine that for the poor litigants (both sides) it has been anything but.
incurable said:
OK, heh, I guess I'll bite...
If walking away with nothing but a $200k + legal bill is your idea of "as clear a win as it gets," then I guess you and I have distinctly different views of what "winning" means...
If that's a "clear win" for [H] then I shudder to think what [H] must've anticipated would happen to it in the case of a "clear loss"...This is the statement I read on whereisphantom.com, and how I interpret it (which isn't always easy, considering the source of the statement here is decidedly very prejudiced, and so it sounds as if the Federal suit filed by IL, any associated Federal countersuit filed by [H], and the Texas state court suit filed by [H] and any associated countersuit filed by IL are all lumped together in the following wip.com summary of IL's Federal court motions):
Whereisphantom.com said:
Here's how I interpret those comments:
1) The motions were filed by IL in US District Court (not in Texas state court, where the [H] "preemptive" suit was filed, remember), and are wholly the result of IL's elective decisions relative to the suit IL filed in Federal court in response presumably to the preemptive suit [H] filed against IL before that in Texas state court. In granting the motions, the US District Court is not ordering IL to do anything but is to the contrary honoring IL's wishes as pleaded in those motions. The court is honoring IL's wishes as expressed in the motions to drop the suit as opposed to making a ruling in the suit(s) itself, is how it appears to me.
Note wip.com's use of the phrase "that essentially relents" in the initial paragraph quoted above. Translating the confused attempt at legalese, it means that "although this is not precisely what the IL motions stated, this in a nutshell is what it means for [H]..." So from the start what we see there is merely a spin on the facts as presented by an obviously biased source, wip.com, which has often stated its desire that, regardless of the facts, [H] be found "right" and that [H] "win" the suit. Hopefully, there'll be few who disagree with me about that in regards to the pretenses of wip.com as to its "objectivity" in the matter...
Remember that the Prayer for Relief as quoted "word for word" by wip.com above is apparently the "prayer" of IL, not [H], and IL is asking for the "relief," not [H] (since of course the motions were filed by IL, not by [H], according to the wip.com account, which is all I have to go on.)
(Before I continue I'll say that wip.com's use of the terms "plaintiff" and "defendant" are not always as clear to me as I think they should be...)
A)This sounds to me as if IL has thought the better of its "damages" claims against [H] and understands how the attendant publicity has elevated IL's public profile markedly beyond what it was before [H] began its attacks, and how there are clearly two sides to an evaluation of that publicity--in one sense it could be considered extremely negative, but in another it could be considered extremely beneficial to IL. This is a position I've personally held since the start, and so it isn't suprising to see IL reach it (as it is so obvious.) I'm surprised it took them so long, however...
For instance, the publicity doesn't seem to have dissuaded companies like SUN and nVidia from doing business with IL, and talking about it publicly, etc.B) Likewise, here, IL has dropped its suit with the attendant claims for damages or statutory relief.
C) IL agrees to pay [H] its costs incurred, excluding [H]'s attorney's fees, which reportedly according to [H] represent the lion's share of its expenses thus far, and currently top $200k. (I'll also guess that the Court will only grant this motion of IL's if the Court and possibly [H] , too, agree with IL that [H]'s attorney's fees are solely [H]'s responsibility.)
D)This sounds like IL is pleading in the motions that IL be granted "such other and further relief, at law or in equity, to which it (as defendant) may be justly entitled," that is, if wip.com's use of the terms "defendant" and "plaintiff" as quoted above is literally consistent.
OK, so where exactly is [H]'s victory here? Sorry but I can't see it, and the only victors apparent to me are the attorneys on both sides.
I mean, if [H] is declaring that it "won" by "only" having to pay $200k+ because IL dropped the suit before [H] would have received a court judgment against it for millions of $--then, OK, I can see how [H] might prefer to think it "won" here...
(But then, in order to think like that you'd also have to consider yourself "guilty as charged," wouldn't you?) But otherwise, I cannot think of what "victory" [H] is referring to. Likewise, the fact that IL dropped its Federal suit appears to undercut any basis for [H]'s state-court suit, since the Texas suit depended on the existence of the Florida suit in order to have any merit at all. (I said from the start that it was foolish to go to court to try to have a company banned from suing you before it had sued you on the grounds that you considered the possibility of a lawsuit a nuisance...
Heck, if that was a legitimate legal premise every company would seek to have any lawsuits against it prohibited in advance and the result would be that there would be no lawsuits possible between companies. Never mind that the concept sounds wonderful to me, the lawyers would never permit something like that to fly. I mean, honestly, who but a lawyer might ever imagine that *suing* another company to prevent a lawsuit might even be a logical proposition in the first place? "Let's engage in a lawsuit to prevent a lawsuit" is an axiom only a lawyer could understand and love...)Again, my own personal opinion is that if IL folds before the Phantom ships then only that will consititute a victory for [H] in the sense that it will become apparent that [H]'s scathing attacks on the company and its officers were justified from the start. However, should the Phantom ship with software from SUN and hardware from nVidia inside, then at that point I would think a hearty "I'm sorry I was so wrong about you" love note from [H] to IL, preferrably plastered on the front page of [H], would be the only order of the day conceivable.
Last but not least, did you see the way wip.com unashamedly attributed what it *admitted* was an "anonymous email" to Robbins himself, as if to say, "Even if he didn't actually write it at all, we here at wip.com believe it's exactly what he would have written, the scumbag"?...
I tell you, even in its hey-day the USSR couldn't have done better propaganda!... I'm still pondering how it is that people who live in "$3,000,000 houses," as [H] chose to characterize the matter, could be so horrible at spelling?... Oh, well, I guess that sort of analysis is too demanding for the wip.com website staff to engage in, I suppose. But it certainly crossed my mind, I'll admit... At least I can but hope that in the event the Phantom console finally ships that the central currently unanswered question posed by the web site "whereisphantom.com" will have at last been answered, and that from henceforth wip.com will answer the question it raised by including a link to IL on its front page, accessible through the following text: "It's right here!"Heh...
This is all just my airmchair opinion, but I honestly can't find anything worng with it...
This has all been a lot of fun for all of us in the airmchairs, but seriously, I imagine that for the poor litigants (both sides) it has been anything but.MasterBaiter
Regular
It's a win IMHO, but a rather expensive one. A $200k "I told ya so" kinda sucks. I'm glad that Kyle was redeemed, but it would have been a much greater victory to see Infinium Labs cough up the lawyer fees.
There came the thesis at last! All he needed was a bit of prodding.
Anyway, I think it's obvious that IL knew they would lose and bailed out prematurely so the loss would not be a total one. Why else would they have done it? Would the allies have turned away from Berlin in the summer of '45 on the brink of victory, of course not.
This is a face-saving gesture, nothing else. Of course, there's not much left to save.
Anyway, I think it's obvious that IL knew they would lose and bailed out prematurely so the loss would not be a total one. Why else would they have done it? Would the allies have turned away from Berlin in the summer of '45 on the brink of victory, of course not.
This is a face-saving gesture, nothing else. Of course, there's not much left to save.
WaltC you're fairly slanted in your analysis and I'm not what you'd call a [H]ard-head by any means. Kyles defense of his right to publish whatever kind of article he wants was worth the legal costs to him in his mind. He can now publish whatever he wants as long as he goes in with what he believes is correct information and no one with any sense will f@#k with him because they know he's willing to pay the price to say whatever he wants.
To say it was just two egos doing battle to preserve their arrogant pride is ignoring this crucial fact, which you somehow managed to do in your tirade.
To say it was just two egos doing battle to preserve their arrogant pride is ignoring this crucial fact, which you somehow managed to do in your tirade.
It doesnt really matter where they file it, hardocp asked for a declatory judgement to the effect of that "prayer". If Infinium had issued it on the first day it would have given hardocp what they wanted, and the judge would have dismissed the case. When they give it to them now it is still giving them what they wanted. That hardocp would have to bear the costs for that particular suit was clear from the get go.
MasterBaiter
Regular
Walt seems to be playing devils advocate more than anything.
I could be wrong, but I think he's just disecting it a bit to show possible subtleties (and spin).
I could be wrong, but I think he's just disecting it a bit to show possible subtleties (and spin).
Good, I hope he gets a good chunk of it back and it totally bankrupts Infinium....THAT would be a complete victory. 8)Pete said:
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