CONFIRMED: PS3 to use "Nvidia-based Graphics processor&

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Qroach said:
Well, you wrote that Sony missed their ambitions. So basically they overhyped a machine they won't be able to deliver. To me that means failing on one's intentions and lying to their customers. Sorry if I read that wrong.

I never said anything like that. I said "sometimes things don't work out the way you want" how that turns into "missed ambitions or failure is purely they way you want to look at it. It can't be a success or a failure until it has launched IMO?

Of course not a commercial failure. But reading of Sony going for "plan B" because Sony missed their targetted performance with Cell (like Dave wrote, for example), I get the impression of Sony failing to deliver what they promised. If this is the case, to me, this is like saying they failed and the new announced alliance proves their inability to deliver what they had in mind (Dave wrote that, not me!). That's all ;)
 
Somehow I knew it ;)

As for me... I'm just gonna sit back and see what happens, though the prospect of a nvidia + SCE GPU is very promising.

I see PS3 as being the most powerful this upcoming gen without a doubt.
 
Urian said:
The other problem is saying "1 teraflop is necesary for physics".

¿How many PC conversions will use the excelent teraflop performance for physics and AI?

¿Do you believe that the multiplatform games will be more superior in PS3 respect the competitors?

Given the opportunity by having much greater computing resources, physics and AI can be done magnitudes better, similar to jumping from 2D to 3D.

Just because we have not see much advances in these areas in the past doesn't mean they're not desired.

Urian said:
¿Do you believe that the multiplatform games will be more superior in PS3 respect the competitors?

Just like extra content when releasing a port later, physics (and AI) can be stepped up, similar to improving the graphics or frame rate, by having more accurate physics calculations.
 
I wonder how hot this sucker is going to run? Nvidia isn't known for producing low-heat GPU solutions.

Maybe the tables will turn and the PS3 will be larger than Xenon to accomodate adaquate cooling?
 
Are they only shooting for DD sound?

Because the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD specs are suppose to be supporting DD Plus and DTS+. Something beyond the current AC-3 and DTS.

Since PS3 will have Blu-Ray drive, which would mean supporting these newer audio codecs and formats, maybe they would target the new audio formats for game audio as well?
 
Excuse me if i'm repeating what's been said earlier (27 pages is a lot to keep track of) but since the $5/system that nVidia's getting seems to be a fairly large number, and given the rumors that Soundstorm could be reborn except this time integrated with an nVidia graphics solution - wouldn't it make sense that nVidia is supplying both the audio and video for ps3?
 
drhicking said:
Excuse me if i'm repeating what's been said earlier (27 pages is a lot to keep track of) but since the $5/system that nVidia's getting seems to be a fairly large number, and given the rumors that Soundstorm could be reborn except this time integrated with an nVidia graphics solution - wouldn't it make sense that nVidia is supplying both the audio and video for ps3?
Before any speculation around this amount of money, you have to remember that the $5 figure is a simple estimation made by an analyst.
Original quote said:
Nvidia could see royalties of around $5 per chip
So, the $5 figure have to be taken with a grain of salt. :D
 
speng said:
I thought people were pretty optimistic about the PS3 already. How does this hurt Microsoft? Was the general position that SONY was going to screw up the graphics part of the PS3 and with NVDA on board people are relieved?

That's what people felt. Now with GPU and CPU state of the art people feel much more comfortable.

Only wish I bought NVidia stock 9 months ago ...hehe

Speng.

If you had bought NVDA 9 months ago you would have broken even... :rolleyes:
 
I think it's a good thing for Sony that they got NVidia onboard for the GPU, but I'm a little surprised that people actually think this has really changed much of the next-generation picture; especially amongst tech-heads here that were well aware of the fact that PS3 was going to be a beast and more powerful than Xbox 2.
_________________
Vince: "Nobody gives a damn about graphics, we're well into a point of diminishing returns with respect to current TV limitations, and even with HDTV, the average consumer won't notice a diffrence between PS3 and XBX2."
 
Johnny Awesome said:
I think it's a good thing for Sony that they got NVidia onboard for the GPU, but I'm a little surprised that people actually think this has really changed much of the next-generation picture; especially amongst tech-heads here that were well aware of the fact that PS3 was going to be a beast and more powerful than Xbox 2.
_________________
Vince: "Nobody gives a damn about graphics, we're well into a point of diminishing returns with respect to current TV limitations, and even with HDTV, the average consumer won't notice a diffrence between PS3 and XBX2."



Now it's a super beast? :devilish:

-Josh378
 
Devourer said:
But reading of Sony going for "plan B" because Sony missed their targetted performance with Cell (like Dave wrote, for example),

Why is it considered "Plan B" ? Considering nvda said that they have been working with sony for past 2 years and if its true , it doesn't sounds like "plan b". At this point are we sure that CELL will miss its desired performance requirements ?
 
crystalcube said:
Devourer said:
But reading of Sony going for "plan B" because Sony missed their targetted performance with Cell (like Dave wrote, for example),

Why is it considered "Plan B" ? Considering nvda said that they have been working with sony for past 2 years and if its true , it doesn't sounds like "plan b".
Sony has been working on CELL for more than double that amount of time ... if they had intended to work with NVIDIA from the start, they most likely would have began working with them sooner.....
 
OK! Let me add my bit here.....

Link

Nvidia scores: Sony to use its chips in Playstation 3

Wed Dec 8, 6:47 AM ET Technology - SiliconValley.com

By Dean Takahashi, Mercury News

In a deal worth a potential $1 billion to Nvidia, Sony announced Tuesday that it will use the Silicon Valley company's graphics chips in the upcoming PlayStation 3 video game console.

Licensing revenue from the deal will likely become an important source of revenue for Santa Clara-based Nvidia at a time when income from a deal to supply chips for Microsoft's Xbox (news - web sites) video-game console winds down. Moreover, the Sony agreement ensures that Nvidia's products will be at the heart of consumer electronics for years to come.

American Technology Research analyst Erach Desai wrote that he believes Sony will use the components for the PlayStation 3 in other living-room devices, increasing the odds that Nvidia's chips will be built into a multitude of consumer electronics gadgets.

"It's a big deal for us," said Dan Vivoli, Nvidia's executive vice president of marketing. "This chip is going to be far more powerful than anything we've done before (obviously, it has to be). And the whole console market is very exciting."

Since 2001, Nvidia has generated nearly $1 billion in revenue from its deal to provide graphics and communications chips for the Xbox. In some quarters, the Xbox has accounted for about 20 percent of total Nvidia revenue.

Sony's PlayStation 2 (news - web sites) has outsold the Xbox 5-to-1, with more than 74 million machines sold since 2001. But Nvidia may not make as much revenue from the PlayStation 3 as it did with Xbox.

That's because Nvidia is designing the graphics chip for Sony to manufacture. Since Nvidia makes a graphics chip that it sells to Microsoft for the Xbox, the company collects a higher fee per chip. However, the Sony deal likely offers rich profits from royalties for Nvidia, analysts said.

Nvidia has been reluctant to do such engineering deals in the past. That has allowed archrival ATI Technologies to score contracts to supply graphics chips for Xbox 2 and Nintendo (news - web sites)'s next-generation video-game console.

Vivoli declined to reveal details of the Sony deal. But the PlayStation 3 is widely expected to launch in 2006. That means Nvidia has perhaps as many as two years to finalize the design. Vivoli said Nvidia has been designing the core of the chip for the past 18 months.

He said the chip for Sony will be a custom chip but will be based on the architecture that Nvidia was creating for its next-generation PC graphics chip. (so, Not CELL based?)

Nvidia and Sony were in talks for two years, Vivoli said. He noted that Nvidia Chief Executive Jen-Hsun Huang and Sony Vice Chairman Ken Kutaragi, who is spearheading the PlayStation 3 effort, have known each other for some time.

"This is a natural alliance," he said.

American Technology Research changed its rating on Nvidia's stock from hold to buy after the deal was announced. Tim Sweeney, CEO of EpicGames in Raleigh, N.C., and a well-known game developer, greeted the Nvidia-Sony deal with relief ;) . He was worried that Sony's next-generation machine might be hard for game developers to program, much like the PlayStation 2 was. Nvidia's chip design is familiar to game developers.

"This eliminates a lot of uncertainty about the architecture," he said. "We're thrilled to see Nvidia in there." :)
 
Way to much wild speculation for me, I predict many of the comments made -- especially from the PC-3D folks who are just now jumping on the topic -- here will be shown to be unambiguiously wrong in 3 months.

PS. QRoach and Johnny Awesome, are you guys the same poster or just love me enough to both quote me exactly the same, in the same format, in your sigs?
 
Sony has been working on CELL for more than double that amount of time ... if they had intended to work with NVIDIA from the start, they most likely would have began working with them sooner.....

From that patent you can see, that they had two type of cell chip in mind, one for data plane processing, the other for graphics processing.

On this board, people always question who are going to design that part, specifically the one with pixel engine. At first it was assumed it was just going to be another Sony graphic chips, some more patents searches gave Toshiba as possibility too. Also rumours from various and questionable sources points to NVIDIA. These rumours been around for quite sometimes too.

On this board, this was once the achilles heels for PS3 because Sony was assume to be doing it alone. Now its official that NVIDIA got the deal. So I wonder where they'll poke next :)

Now the next interesting question is, how does the Power core and Synergistic core from STI, help NVIDIA in designing the the graphic processing cell, if at all. That's the interesting bit.
 
Excellent post all-around V3. And, finally, someone uses the term DPP in the right context; not that I'd think you wouldn't.

V3 said:
On this board, people always question who are going to design that part, specifically the one with pixel engine. At first it was assumed it was just going to be another Sony graphic chips, some more patents searches gave Toshiba as possibility too. Also rumours from various and questionable sources points to NVIDIA. These rumours been around for quite sometimes too.

Exactly. This graphic solution has been stated to be utilized in Sony and Toshiba's CE based products. We know that STI is going to use Cell, which was designed to be inheriently highly area and power effecient, in CE and I'm failing to see how a seperate or monolithic NG-GPU block of logic is helpful. Actually, it's logically inconsistent with every indication seen this far. The people around here who think this is going to be a PC-GPU derivative akin to the XGPU, IMHO, are going to be proven wrong. I'm much more partial to an advanced ROP/nVidia Pixel Engine integration with IP usage scenario. Those who think this is indicative of a failure of Cell will be proven wrong (which is an absolutely asinine stance to be taken a week after the ISSCC publishings).

People need to slow down and think. This nVidia announcement has served as nothing but a lightning-rod for the PC folks to take another shot at nVidia and Cell without ever knowing a single thing about it before Tuesday.
 
Inane_Dork said:
For everyone who thinks the PS3's GPU will be Cell based: can you explain to me why nVidia would need do that? I can't really think of any reason offhand for why nVidia's GPUs need input from Sony.

Theory

Cell is reprogrammable, right? nVidia will have a deeper road map to the future of graphics compared to Sony, hence I would not be surprised Sony is leveraging on their IPs and expertises for future graphics techniques to design the Cell based VPU to be flexible enuff for developers reconfigure for their particular style of game.

/Theory.
 
1.) I don't think the Nvidia GPU (or Nvidia-Sony GPU) indicates that Cell is in any way bad. I think it indicates that Sony is very smart


I simply wonder how a 100% Nvidia GPU will affect PS3's performance. obviously Nvidia brings a massive, massive amount of IP and engineering talent to the table for PS3. I just wonder if an Nvidia GPU with a fillrate of tens of billions of pixels/sec is still possible, as that seems to be what Sony's goal is, according to one of the patents. well yes of course it is possible, i mean is it likely. maybe that's not a good question anyway.


what if Sony could have 2 Broadband Engines in PS3. one for general game tasks like physics and whatnot. the other to be the frontend for an Nvidia GPU. the 2nd BE could provide all the vertex processing / geometry / lighting / etc. maybe that doesnt make sense either. most likely not going to happen.

just grasping at straws, while humbly admiting he knows precious little about PS3's architecture or what it will be able to acomplish.

ok... I re-read Vince's post. so it seems that the PS3 GPU will still be Cell based, with Nvidia designed Pixel Engines and other parts with Nvidia IP. am I reading that correctly Vince?
 
Vince said:
Those who think this is indicative of a failure of Cell will be proven wrong (which is an absolutely asinine stance to be taken a week after the ISSCC publishings).

People need to slow down and think. This nVidia announcement has served as nothing but a lightning-rod for the PC folks to take another shot at nVidia and Cell without ever knowing a single thing about it before Tuesday.

Precisely....
I am having difficulty understanding why this annoucement automatically means failure of CELL for some people. Historical known info does not point to such a conclusion. As I see it Sony understand the challenges ahead and they are just making sure they have right tools for it.
 
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