Radeon XPress 200 (RX480) chipset preview

[jvd]

digital wanderer you can have mine... NOT it is a cool box. Mine didn't come with a 4000+ though

I just like the idea of a whole new kit-in-a-box, and I'd be able to finally have an all ATi system. 8)

I dunno. If you want a cheap box that you don't play games on then perhaps.But to me, the extra features of the NF 4 chipset is much more interesting then a, while better then what we currently have, still crappy IGP.

Sorry what features does the nf4 have that this doesn't have (and i'm seriously asking)

 

[{Sniping}Waste]

If the price is around $120 for the intergraded gpu and around $90 for the non intergraded gpu, then it looks like a big winner. One of the reviews got there HTT up to 291 and that is amazing for a S939.

 

[kemosabe]

Sorry what features does the nf4 have that this doesn't have (and i'm seriously asking)

Brandon had this to say:

"On the retail side the situation isn’t quite as decisive for ATI. From a features perspective, RADEON XPRESS 200/200P is nice, but not quite up to the same level as NVIDIA’s nForce4. Both chipsets are equally average in audio capability, but NVIDIA bests ATI in storage, networking, and connectivity. The ATI RADEON XPRESS 200 chipset lacks support for native command queuing and 300MB/sec SATA, as well as native GigE with Firewall. And while both ATI and NVIDIA’s chipsets lack Firewire support, NVIDIA’s USB implementation is a little bit better than ATI’s.

Because of these factors, we’ve got to give the features edge to NVIDIA. ATI may be able to one up NVIDIA by pairing RADEON XPRESS to THEATER 550 at some point in the future, potentially making for one killer Shuttle (or any other manufacturer for that matter) small form factor box, but until that product ships this is only a pipe dream."

But I think ATI's main focus will be the OEM side, as he also mentions.

 

[jvd]

well alot of those features wont mean much if i can get my 3000+ past the 230 limit my nforce 3 is placing on me (all nforce 3s )

 

[Gunhead]

The ATI RADEON XPRESS 200 chipset lacks support for native command queuing and 300MB/sec SATA, as well as native GigE with Firewall. And while both ATI and NVIDIA’s chipsets lack Firewire support, NVIDIA’s USB implementation is a little bit better than ATI’s.

I don't understand the BFD with 300 MB/s SATA. Current 7200 rpm drives seem to top out at 50 or 60 MB/s in real-life capability. 10K drives approach 100 MB/s read/write rates, but none have gone over that: currrently you need 15K SCSI to cross 100 MB/s per drive. 200 or 300MB/s per channel might make sense with a two-drive PATA cable (and two 10K PATA drives), but what the heck is the benefit with SATA (which has only one drive per channel)?

On another note, didn't that ATI reference mobo -- over at Anand's -- have FireWire in the rear panel? Was it a separate add-on (chip)? Can't be arsed to go back take another look...

More fun from Anand: "PCI Express Gigabit LAN can deliver bi-directional 500MB/s total bandwidth per device." And here I thought the "Gigabit" somehow limits what you get out of it... (Okay, in fairness, having PCI-E's 250+250 MB/s is better than PCI's 133 MB/s -- when you have a Dual GigE controller attached to it. But Anand is always quick to not point out any practical value for kewl big numbers.)

I also loved Anand's feature tables were "SATA" is contrasted to "IDE". Aren't they "IDE PATA and "IDE SATA"? (Or has the revolution started already when I was taking me nap...?)

 

[OICAspork]

ATI SLI in early '05?

According Anand, ATI plans to have SLIish availability early next year:

SLI - ATI claims that this PCI Express 20-lane design is capable of supporting dual PCIe x8 slots for combining 2 graphics cards in an SLI configuration. Plans are already in place at ATI for an SLI version of RX480 to be introduced in early 2005.

Does that mean ATI will have dual-grahics card ability early next year? It seems unlikely that they would offer the ability if at the time only their competitors graphics card supported it. Also, for that matter, how likely is it that ATI and NVidia will agree to a compatible technology. :/ I think either both, or at least one of the graphics companies may feel it is in there best interest to try and kill off the opponents multi-GPU solution... especially NVidia as they have so much AMD chipset momentum they may feel they can dictate the standard to try and stifle ATI. To have two different standards would really suck though, as it would force you to 'chose sides' when you buy your mobo, not knowing which company's product will be better down the road.

 

[KimB]

Well, since any SLI system should be independent of the motherboard chosen, I don't see how they wouldn't be compatible.

 

[kemosabe]

I came to the conclusion a while ago that ATI and NVDA will never consciously come to an agreement about anything. I may be cynical, but the only common objective is driving the other out of business, and I think sooner or later one of these belligerents is going to suffer such a fate.

 

[KimB]

I came to the conclusion a while ago that ATI and NVDA will never consciously come to an agreement about anything. I may be cynical, but the only common objective is driving the other out of business, and I think sooner or later one of these belligerents is going to suffer such a fate.

Well, I just don't think it matters in this case. ATI will probably select a different method of using two cards at once (assuming they do), but it would be ridiculous if you couldn't use an ATI motherboard with a pair of nVidia cards, or vice versa.

 

[Bjorn]

well alot of those features wont mean much if i can get my 3000+ past the 230 limit my nforce 3 is placing on me (all nforce 3s )

All of those features might not be useful at this point in time. But i'd rather have the features then not having them. And how useful is the IGP if you're actually planning on playing games ?

But I think ATI's main focus will be the OEM side, as he also mentions.

I agree.

 

[jvd]

All of those features might not be useful at this point in time. But i'd rather the features then not having them. And how useful is the IGP if you're actually planning on playing games

I wont be buying the board for the igp.

Though I'm sure my cousin would have liked it if we had known about it . He could have saved a fortune .

Not only that but the card looks to give fine performance for some of my friends that will most likely only play painkiller , doom3 and half life 2 at 800x600.

Looks like you can have a fun game of hl2 at 800x600 with 2x temporal and 8x aniso.

Which is not bad at all

 

[whql]

All of those features might not be useful at this point in time. But i'd rather have the features then not having them. And how useful is the IGP if you're actually planning on playing games ?

Might be very useful if you want to go above two displays. For that matter, how usful is a hardware firewall if you have a dsl router with one?

 

[Bjorn]

For that matter, how usful is a hardware firewall if you have a dsl router with one?

Not particulary. Unless it's faster of course. My netgear router is f.e limited to 10 mbit on the WAN port. And i can get a 100 mbit connection for a rather small amount of money.

 

[jvd]

For that matter, how usful is a hardware firewall if you have a dsl router with one?

Not particulary. Unless it's faster of course. My netgear router is f.e limited to 10 mbit on the WAN port. And i can get a 100 mbit connection for a rather small amount of money.

i dunno the nforce 3 250gb has a ton of firewall problems. Like myself not being able to connect to the web.


So i don't bother installing that anymore

 

[Richard]

Well, I just don't think it matters in this case. ATI will probably select a different method of using two cards at once (assuming they do), but it would be ridiculous if you couldn't use an ATI motherboard with a pair of nVidia cards, or vice versa.

Well, if ATi stipulates that mobos with its chipsets can't come with a bundled "nVidia SLI connector". 8)

P.S. Assuming ATi's "SLI" system uses the actual PCI-e bus for the connection, or even a separate connector different from nVidia's.

P.P.S. Which, like kemosabe, I think that's what's going to happen. Divide and conquer.

 

[loekf2]

Well, I just don't think it matters in this case. ATI will probably select a different method of using two cards at once (assuming they do), but it would be ridiculous if you couldn't use an ATI motherboard with a pair of nVidia cards, or vice versa.

Well, if ATi stipulates that mobos with its chipsets can't come with a bundled "nVidia SLI connector". 8)

P.S. Assuming ATi's "SLI" system uses the actual PCI-e bus for the connection, or even a separate connector different from nVidia's.

P.P.S. Which, like kemosabe, I think that's what going to happen. Divide and conquer.

I thought that SLI effectively means a x16 PCIe slot with 16 lanes is split into two x8 lanes, however still featuring the original x16 connector.

According to Anand ATI is planning the same. So the only proprietary thing is the flat cable / PCB kludge between the cards + the drivers to divide up the work. As Anand also states in his interview... then it should be possible to run two nVidia GPUs in SLI configuration in a ATI-based motherboard ;-)

Small remark... did anyone read this report:

http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/radeon-xpress200/index.x?pg=1

Here the reviewer states that ATI's Radeon Xpress integrated graphics chipset like Intel's 91x also lacks vertex shaders. Much is done in software (driver), except for "some" operations.

 

[mboeller]

I'm rather surprised about the "SidePort" Memory.

IMHO this feature seems rather half thought out, cause an 32bit DDR memory @350MHz has only around 2800 MB/sec bandwidth. Why don't they support an 64bit bus? With an bandwidth of up to 5600MB/sec the performance of the integrated graphics-chip whould be a lot higher, or?

I expect that the chipsets for Intel support 667MHz DDR2-memory with an bandwidth of 10667 MB/sec so the sideport-memory will no longer be necessary. Hopefully the chipsets for Intel will also have an better integrated graphics-subsystem cause with up to 6400MB/sec solely for 3D graphics this would be enough bandwidth for around 1600MPixel/sec (based on the MPixel / MByte ratio of the new 6600GT).

 

[plat]

well alot of those features wont mean much if i can get my 3000+ past the 230 limit my nforce 3 is placing on me (all nforce 3s )

whats the 230 limit?

 

[Fodder]

Not only that but the card looks to give fine performance for some of my friends that will most likely only play painkiller , doom3 and half life 2 at 800x600.

Heh, if 'fine performance' is a 20FPS average in Doom.

 

[Tim]

I'm rather surprised about the "SidePort" Memory.

IMHO this feature seems rather half thought out, cause an 32bit DDR memory @350MHz has only around 2800 MB/sec bandwidth. Why don't they support an 64bit bus? With an bandwidth of up to 5600MB/sec the performance of the integrated graphics-chip whould be a lot higher, or?

They do support a 64bit bus (acording to techreport) - but Ati suspect that most motherboards only will use a 32bit connection like the reference board.