KYRO enhanced T&L

R

Roger Kohli

Newcomer
3D Prophet 4800's new 3D processor offers a remarkable assortment of the most up-to-date graphics technology features for key 3D effects in the latest applications. 3D Prophet 4800 stands out with its unmatched enhanced Transform And Lighting technology engine which has been specifically designed by PowerVR for the new generation of KYROII chipsets. It mixes intelligent 3D and CPU resources applied to Transform & Lighting and enables the 3D processing to calculate in real time how light intensity will vary on surfaces, where shadows are positioned in 3D applications. These operations guarantee more realistic scenes without increasing CPU resources overload, which maximizes the frame rates in games. The enhanced T&L engine proves to be up to 15% faster than standard engines in games where T&L causes a bottleneck.
 
From the Videologic website for the new Vivid!XS Elite

EnT&L™
To deliver optimal cost-performance KYRO II SE supports the new EnT&L driver technology which unites the advanced features of KYRO II SE with transform and lighting to provide superior performance to cost comparable solutions. EnT&L is optimized for KYRO II SE AGP 4X SBA operation and Implicit Guard Band Clipping.


Doesnt sound like Hardware T&L to me. The rumours sadly were correct. A K2 overclocked to 200Mhz with driver optimisations. I'll pass on judgement when we see some real figures but I'm a little let down by this offering

:cry:
 
It seems, the price for the most missleading press-release goes to Videologic and Hercules.

Old wine in an new hose ....

eT&L = only lightning gets an boost (maybe they use the DOT3-unit)

Smarter Rendering Technology = joke (even the old chips had this, it's the base of the PVR-technology)

Textur8 = new word for an KyroI feature

TrueRender™ OnChip FSAA = same here

Bump Map Complete = same here

Internal True Colour = same here ( hyping the same old feature the KyroI already had )


The hercules press-release even suggest that the Kyro is an DX8.1 chip!!!


I'm really really disappointed, even more with the press-release than with the chip itself. :( :(


Manfred
 
The two PR's seem to take a different stance. The Herc PR makes it sound like there is HW T&L but the VDO PR suggests driver enhancements.

Is the Kyro II SE actually a new chip? The Herc blurb mentions 'the new generation of Kyro II chipsets'. Did the previous Kyro II chip support AGP 4x and SBA as mentioned above? Was this a feature left disabled by the drivers? The Prophet 4500 I own only supports up to AGP 2x and does not work with SBA either.

I am sort of dissapointed by this news this morning as I was intending to buy a Prophet 4800 when I build my new P4 DDR system next month.
 
I'll have to agree with mboeller on the naming/marketing stuff. I considered ATI's/NVIDIA's feature naming schemes already stupid, they just seem to follow that trend.

After Quincunx, Lightspeed, nFinite, Smoothvision, Smartshader etc etc now this. Bad thing about is the terms don't even offer much room to make fun of them like I used to do with other ones in the past.

I guess I could say though that this is the KYRO RnF(tm) (revamp nFinite) ;)
 
Manfred, this is ordinary marketing, they're just cloning Nvidia!

Aside from this, while Imgtec introduces a software emulation for hardwired TNL, Nvidia already has one for vertex shaders 1.1.
 
Is the Kyro II SE actually a new chip? The Herc blurb mentions 'the new generation of Kyro II chipsets'.
Click to expand...

It might be worth peeling the heatsink off one. You might find that its just a newer revision of KYROII with a few buggies sorted out (AGP4X?) and a few speed opimisations.

Although the moniker 'STG4800' may suggest more work than a simple respin.
 
All PR on all cards suggest they are DX8.1 chips. Look at Gf3 and Gf4 PR. Joe Public doesnt know the differnce between 'tech' definitions of 8.0 and 8.1 and compatible/compliant.

Any company would be foolish to highlight on PR 'compliance' when all that matters to sales is compatibility.
 
Mephisto said:
Manfred, this is ordinary marketing, they're just cloning Nvidia!

Aside from this, while Imgtec introduces a software emulation for hardwired TNL, Nvidia already has one for vertex shaders 1.1.
Click to expand...


Yea;

BUT Nvidia normaly beefs up the marketing crap with something really new or enhanced (except maybe the new AccuviewAA). Here we have an press-release with new marketing terms and age-old features. Most (if not all) of them where already in the KyroI and they didn't even have improved the features. I imagine that even the eT&L will work with KyroI-cards (maybe renamed with an registry hack). Thats ... :devilish: o_O :( :(

I suppose tomorrow most of the Internet-community interested in 3D / graphics will laugh at them really hard! "See how long it took them to improve the drivers and increase the speed a mere 25MHz" WOW, that sucks.

I really hope they show the new STG 5500 too (but not behind closed doors only), otherwise they are lost.


Manfred
 
I really hope they show the new STG 5500 too (but not behind closed doors only), otherwise they are lost.
Click to expand...

Remember, they are in a slightly transitionary period at the moment - I think the best to hope for is an announcement on whether someone has taken over STM graphics; if that occurs then we can start talking about newer products...
 
mboeller said:
Mephisto said:
BUT Nvidia normaly beefs up the marketing crap with something really new or enhanced (except maybe the new AccuviewAA). Here we have an press-release with new marketing terms and age-old features. Most (if not all) of them where already in the KyroI and they didn't even have improved the features. I imagine that even the eT&L will work with KyroI-cards (maybe renamed with an registry hack). Thats ... :devilish: o_O :( :(

Manfred
Click to expand...
hmm replace Kyro with Gf3 and Gf3ti and I dont see a difference compared with last years autumn 'refesh' ;)
Click to expand...
 
So, is the new enT&L a hardware solution or is it just a software solution?
Either way can someone explain how it will work and appear to programs that support HW T&L? ie. If it is a software solution will it appear as HW T&L to programs such as Max Payne etc?

Also if its only software will it be enabled for earlier Kyro's?
 
EnT&L
To deliver optimal cost-performance KYRO II SE supports the new EnT&L driver technology which unites the advanced features of KYRO II SE with transform and lighting to provide superior performance to cost comparable solutions. EnT&L is optimized for KYRO II SE AGP 4X SBA operation and Implicit Guard Band Clipping.
Click to expand...

"EnT&L is optimized for.....Implicit Guard Band Clipping."

Does this mean guard band clipping is enabled whether or not the application enables it? And, do game coders check for this, or do they just assume that if a card lacks full hardware T&L it will not have this feature also?
 
EnT&L is optimized for KYRO II SE AGP 4X SBA operation and Implicit Guard Band Clipping
Click to expand...

hmm, i wonder what would 'implicit' exactly mean in this case... wouldn't excessive use of guardBand clipping impose too much of a performance hit? how good is the Kyro at that? any first-hand impressions? .. Simon, Kristoff?..
 
So it is no GeForce 4 killer, we all knew that when Kristof showed us the box entitled 4800. I think some of you are also forgetting how lame the GeForce4MX is, in my opinion eT&L whether it is hardware or not, is going to have advantages over the MX.

Bottom line we want a 3rd party in the high-end, but PVR chose to stay low-end for now. It is better than nothing, and try not to look a gift horse in the mouth.
 
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