I guess when Disney makes films, they don't target the kiddies too. I guess it's all just *family fun*. I guess that's why you'd pick "Snow White" over "Lord of the Rings" anyday when you visit a cinema. I mean, Snow White is just such family fun!
Baaaad choice for comparison. They had to edit a bunch out of LoTR to get the sub R rating they needed. They removed "mature" content for the sake of making it family entertainment, and the movie still kicked all kinds of ass. What this comparison says, is you are of the firm belief that quality family entertainment with beat quality family entertainment...
I would certainly take Aladdin(Mario) over NaturalBornKillers(GTA3) any day of the weak. Once you get past the adolescent blood lust and profanity, NBK is a very weak film.
Problem is with this discussion is you have a bunch of kids arguing that Nintendo's games are for younger kids. Want a reality check here people? Most people over age fifty think that all games are for kids and we are all childish for playing them.
I've already used one media example, but what about some more.
How many of the "Greatest Films of All Time" carry an R tag? The Godfather, anything else in the top twenty(not talking gross, talking quality). How many off the best books are too obscene/violent/profane for a kid to read? I enjoy reading a King novel every now and then, and I wouldn't let my kids read it either(not yet, they are still too young). Tolkien's books are superior(would anyone argue that?) and I do let my kids read them.
What do you think was a better movie, StarWars or RamboIII?
The big difference between games and other forms of media is the type of interaction you have with them. With a movie or book your interaction is absorption of the story. In a game, your interaction is the gameplay. Games have reached a point where they are capable of delivering a compelling story, but in all honesty I can count the titles that have done so on one hand(I challenge anyone to list more then five, game based stories that would stand up on their own in traditional media formats).
So what would put a game out of the reach of children?
Content
Difficulty
On the content front we have plenty of RamboIII style games to chose from as examples, blood and guts for the sake of blood and guts. SoF, QuakeXX, GTA3, UT, the list goes on and on. These games don't lose much of anything(excluding GTA3 which is all about senseless violence) if you censor them down and eliminate much of the violent content. In fact, most of the die hard players of these titles eliminate the blood&guts anyway to keep the gameplay, the important part, smoother.
Profanity is still rare in games so isn't a big factor. Nudity is just starting to be breached, and as such is trivial as of right now.
Then we have graphic violence or gore with a point(usually to induce fear) ResidentEvil, Alone in the Dark etc fall under this category. These are games that would have a 'game making' element removed if they were to be toned down for the sake of child suitable content. They simply wouldn't be any good without the gore.
For honest good story driven games that use mature themes the two I think of quickly are ED and Mafia, they would lose a significant amount of their entertainment value by removal of their violent/obscene driven content and would suffer accordingly. That said, the gameplay in either one of them could still be enjoyed stripped of all the unsuitable material, simply for their solid gameplay.
That pretty much sums up content based reasons. Now difficulty also has many sub sections and reasons for being exclusive to younger children.
Game mechanics is the first, and a non factor on consoles. Controllers are simply too limited to make for extremely deep game mechanics in terms of making it unplayable by younger children(HTH would you put a real RTS or flight sim on a console?). Titles such as Civ, C&C and the like fall along these lines.
Gameplay difficulty is pretty much a complete non factor. If anything the title older kids are most likely to call 'kiddie' are far more difficult then the 'my monkey beat it without a problem' games such as MGS2 and GTA3. SMB/SMB2 is likely the most difficult game yet this gen and is firmly planted in what the older kids call the 'kiddie' demographic.
Johnny-
Mario Sunshine is a kids game.
You mean that platformers are kids games. Likely the most childish platformer I have ever seen was CBFD which carried a 'M' rating.
Imagine Kameo comes to Xbox
Kameo is a souped up Pokemon. I've never denied being very interested in the game, but it is nothing remotely like Mario(comparing a RPG to a platformer?).
I realize that Ben will come in and tell me that Mario will always sell, that he's heard it all before, but this time I think it's different.
I've been hearing it since you were a toddler
Gameplay is evolving much more slowly now.
There was roughly a decade between SMB and SMW, you think it is evolving slowly
now?
I'll be surprised if SMS sells more than 50% as well as M64
So it will only equal GTA3s sales? That would truly be a crushing blow
You
seriously underestimate just how powerful Mario has always been. He could very well lose 50% of his draw compared to the N64 and it would still be tripple what Halo has moved. Think about that.
Nintendo has chosen to ignore the one new innovative technology that might allow Miyamoto to shine through with unheard of gameplay - Online.
See if you are saying that at the end of Q4 '03. So far, what revolutionary new game have you heard about coming with this new 'innovative technology'?
MS acquisition of Rare is a long term play.
Obviously, and it's a huge score for MS now matter how you look at it. I was getting flamed pretty hard on the Nintendo boards for saying as much(over there I'm a 'rabid XBox fboy', you think we have closed minded platform zealots here sometimes, heh, you should see a few of the posters over there), and even getting some flak from our own posters who prefer Nintendo here(although as tends to be the case they did so with class and intelligence). I call them as I see them, whoever it is good or bad for. Mario will sell, huge.
