Frenetic Pony
Veteran
Surprisingly high price point, with predictably "I was thinking about it but now I'm not" response. Between this and the "live service live service live service!" something or other is starting to go wrong at Sony.
Sony PlayStation 5 Pro
- Thread starter chris1515
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davis.anthony
Veteran
PS5 Pro *spawn
They dont have to know how to calculate, 300 top was in sony document Ah thank you. For reference that says 8bit 300 TOPS. It’s highly likely this is a really large XDNA2 in there. I can’t math out any other way. If it were 4bit 300TOPS. Maybe. I don’t recall how dual issue works, but...
forum.beyond3d.com
It's not really possible to build an equivalent as you can't buy new Zen 2 CPU's anymore, and while you could use AM4 (And a Zen 3 CPU) to reduce price by a decent amount, it's not really worth it in the long run.
But that build offers substantially betters CPU performance with the 7600x.
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Flappy Pannus
Veteran
Sony knows their own numbers though. They're fully aware PS5 sales are down yoy. This $700 price only portends the 'future' of next gen if Sony produces tens of millions of units and they fly off the shelves, which I doubt will happen.
It will sell 'enough' to warrant the R&D spent on it and provide a decent chunk of income with a bracket of buyer who wants PC-like visuals with console simplicity - it's not a huge market sure, but it's viable enough as an added tier.
I do not expect $700 is now suddenly the entry point for next gen because of this. The next-gen will be more expensive yes, there will likely be no model shipping with an optical drive for one, and they may even gouge more with online price hikes again, but I don't feel you can base the assumption of a $700 starting price for that gen on the price of a purposely designed high-tier option with a fraction of the userbase the cheaper model will have.
I doubt any publisher will stop chasing the live service fortnite dragon entirely, but I hope at the very least the massive chasm of implementation and market/audience/critic reaction wrt to Concorde and Astrobot is illustrative to them and the industry at large.
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Will they refund everyone's money if it flops?
Why is it no longer true today? Games being F2P doesn't change anything, cuz the platform owners still take the same cut for ALL that MTX revenue. If revenue in gaming goes up, Playstation automatically benefits. They aren't left out at all.
And no, Playstation doesn't have 'low margins', they have simply gotten super greedy and spent wildly irresponsibly on things that didn't pan out. All their 'low margins' are of their own making, not some inherent reality of the market. It's all part of the same arrogance and greed we're seeing here.
And it's all gotten worse with the Covid boom temporarily inflating gaming demand, and these companies all reveling in the growth, and then reacting freaking terribly once that growth died off completely and they had to face reality again. We got higher prices due to higher demand, but then we also got further higher prices cuz demand lowered and they wanted to keep their high margins! It's the exact opposite of how the free market is supposed to work.
It's insane how much gamers are willing to excuse these companies for their clearly terrible and greedy management. And people making these excuses are exactly why the 'free market' has broken down. No longer are consumers holding these companies accountable.
Charlietus
Regular
They decided to make a niche console for enthusiasts. I'm pretty sure they are selling this at a healthy profit, since 80% of the console is pretty much the same.
Compared to the start of the generation, where they wanted to convert PS4 users at the highest pace in console history, now they are making consoles to improve margins and don't care about capturing as much market as possible. They aren't thinking about the future of the business, they are just thinking about how to make the next quarter look good to investors.
I'm sure PS6 will be aimed at the mass market, with at least a version of the PS6 at around 400$ (even if it's a lite console like the series s), but the lack of vision for the future is worrying.
Compared to the start of the generation, where they wanted to convert PS4 users at the highest pace in console history, now they are making consoles to improve margins and don't care about capturing as much market as possible. They aren't thinking about the future of the business, they are just thinking about how to make the next quarter look good to investors.
I'm sure PS6 will be aimed at the mass market, with at least a version of the PS6 at around 400$ (even if it's a lite console like the series s), but the lack of vision for the future is worrying.
I have looked at the snippets shown by Sony. All 3 of those games: Spider-man 2, Ratchet and TLOU2 look sharper in static areas and in motion on PS5 Pro at 60fps compared to the same games running at 30fps in their fidelity mode running on PS5. Doubling framerate, sharper and with better IQ in motion. The whole package looks really promising.
I'mDudditz!
Newcomer
Wrong. Bandwidth throughout the entire gpu has been doubled and they are leveraging PSSR, which will require relatively less gpu bandwidth. You made the mistake of claiming Xbox Series X would always perform better than PS5 at ray tracing prior to the console releases. Here we go again with you and your falsehoods.
Didn’t MS claim as well that XBox would be more powerful and have more chips and rays and tracing and whatnot? So it is possible that other people believed it as well. As MS is a real company and they would never lie because their investors would sue them.
Btw
Cerny was saying that players shouldn’t choose between framerate and quality anymore, but it looks like GT7 now has gameplay raytracing OR an 8K mode..
So now they choose between graphics, and more graphics? lol
If the PSSR upscaling is great then PS5 pro would run games at lower res with more raytracing and then have it output at a higher res and higher framerate as a result as well.
I am afraid DF is going to need to buy 8K tv and 8K capture devices to test Sony claims.
It's a lot of money for a console that seemingly only benefits games if they receive an update (enhanced for PS5 Pro). $700 is definitely a lot for a console. 8K modes are the dumbest thing I've ever heard of, but ray tracing could be really nice. Really comes down to how many games receive udpates and how fast. That price rules a lot of people out automatically.
For one game? Worthless.
8K mode should run at 60fps too. Likely native 4K (without RT) PSSRed to 8K. It's just different 60fps modes.
Am I blind or is 28% not even close to double. Sony would never mislead though as a public corporation. Or layoff developers while recording record profits.
Anyways, I owned a Xbox One X which was kind of a huge leap on that gen and it was pretty disappointing, no games truly even came close to taking advantage. At the end I could comfort myself knowing it was the best way to play games on a console, but it still felt so untapped. The Ps5 pro surely will be even worse because it has no additional ram, handicapped by only 28% more bandwidth, etc. Is definitely not the leap Xbox One X was vs Xbox One S. Or even remotely in the same ballpark.
Also is it me or Cerny looking older and creepier by the day?
I do like the 2TB SSD. It always bugged me MS didnt include 2TB HDD with X One X. If you go premium make sure it's premium. I wish it had been 4TB SSD though, to really drive home the point, but I'm sure the incremental price was a bridge too far.
All their moves show MS and Sony really struggling with hardware costs this gen. Sony apparently stealth raised their controller priced $5 too, to an insane 79.99. On the bright side at least in last holiday, you could get PS4/XSX for 350. And there's always Series S if cost is your main concern although the market has proven very little demand for that.
I'mDudditz!
Newcomer
I meant for gpu caches
Jmesparza05
Newcomer
Any of you going to buy the PS5 Pro?
snc
Veteran
yeah, will sell ps5 and buy it but with this cpu price is definitely too high
There's not enough MTX revenue for that. Consoles used to be subsidized with the idea that players would buy 5-6 titles per generation. A single owner to be spending $500 dollars worth of MTX per generation? That's a high amount per player. There's just no way MTX is that profitable, or Sony would be rolling hard in cash. If that was the average MTX spend, Sony would be up 25 Billion per year in revenue not counting anything else.
What do you mean by this? People vote with their wallets, Sony can't force you to buy a pro. Tough for Sony that they don't get your business if it's out of your price bracket.
Charlietus
Regular
Even if I consoles and PC's are different because they offer a different experience, with pro's and con's, I'm trying to find what's the cost for a equivalent PC to PS5 PRO.
A rtx 3070ti will probably give you a very similar experience to PS5 pro, but it's 8gb of VRAM is a big limiting factor. If PS5 has around 10GB for graphics and pro has 11,2GB, 8GB aren't enough.
Then we can go to a 4070 12GB, which has the right VRAM but the ray tracing performance is probably better, and something around 10% better performance in raster. So the pro GPU is something in between a 4060ti 16gb and a 4070.
The CPU is a 3600, as shown in many tests.
So we have: either a 4060ti (420€-480€ or a 4070 (500€-550€)
3600: around 80-100€
Motherboard for 50-70€
16gb of ram for 50-70€
Case for 50-70€
Power supply: 50-70€
2tb SSD for 100€
At the lowest prices we get around 800€. You can probably get a very similar machine for the same price or a much better CPU for just 50€ more (a 5600x).
So, compared to PS5 the value got reduced significantly. Not really surprising.
Ps: forgot the controller, but it doesn't change much.
A rtx 3070ti will probably give you a very similar experience to PS5 pro, but it's 8gb of VRAM is a big limiting factor. If PS5 has around 10GB for graphics and pro has 11,2GB, 8GB aren't enough.
Then we can go to a 4070 12GB, which has the right VRAM but the ray tracing performance is probably better, and something around 10% better performance in raster. So the pro GPU is something in between a 4060ti 16gb and a 4070.
The CPU is a 3600, as shown in many tests.
So we have: either a 4060ti (420€-480€ or a 4070 (500€-550€)
3600: around 80-100€
Motherboard for 50-70€
16gb of ram for 50-70€
Case for 50-70€
Power supply: 50-70€
2tb SSD for 100€
At the lowest prices we get around 800€. You can probably get a very similar machine for the same price or a much better CPU for just 50€ more (a 5600x).
So, compared to PS5 the value got reduced significantly. Not really surprising.
Ps: forgot the controller, but it doesn't change much.
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