PlayStation Showcase 2023

[Nesh]

GAAS is risky. But it's not for Playstation core gamers. So those people get less games they like on their favorite console.

Can you clarify? You mean the non-core gamers get less games they like on their favorit console? If thats what you mean, then it wouldnt have been their favorite console.
Also it doesnt change the fact that GaaS are still riskier and overly expensive endeavors, that may sacrifice resources that would have actually been put into games that your consumers are looking for.

 

[BRiT]

Yes, GaaS is indeed difficult to do.

NEW: Naughty Dog has significantly scaled down the team on its Last of Us multiplayer project, sources say, as it reassesses the game. Following Bloomberg's requests for comment, the company put out a Twitter statement today saying the game was delayed.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1662174968384311296

 

[Silent_Buddha]

People do play GaaS but if you review sales and what has driven revenue over the last ten years outside of the mobile space, with the exception of GTA V, it's not GaaS. It's Skyrim, Minecraft, it's Zelda, It's Mario Kart, it's Pokemon. It's single player experiences or games that are not predicated on ongoing payments. I spent a good week with Grounded but spent zero real money, nor felt the need too.

I'm sure Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony would like the console space to be like the mobile space for this reason but the home console community has resisted.

Which is interesting since Sony's own slides show that add-on content (which GAAS excels at) is the fastest growing revenue segment for Sony.

All purpose Sales and Sales Rumours and Anecdotes [2023 Edition]

But wouldn't that apply to Xbox One, One X, and possibly XB360 direct sales as well? Yes, direct sales aren't being included, but that would include Sony and Nintendo direct sales as well (that aren't being provided). Unless, you believe Microsoft direct sales are somehow outpacing box store...

forum.beyond3d.com

Full game revenue fell 10% while add on content grew +210%. Full game sales revenue is still higher than add on content revenue, but it's getting close. It could still go either way but it's possible that FY2023 (Year ending Mar. 2024) might have add on content revenue be higher than full game sales revenue.

Sony are likely looking at their gaming revenue trends and figure that selling add on content for GAAS is potentially easier and more lucrative than selling add on content for full games.

I don't know that I necessarily buy into that at the moment. But it's undeniable that add-on content is on pace to surpass full game sales in the not so distant future for consoles as it has for PC and mobile.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shortbread]

Yes, GaaS is indeed difficult to do.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1662174968384311296

May not be related, but Sony is getting 'rightfully hammered' with lots of mediocre reviews of it's 2023 presentation, both in broadcast and social media. I don't think they (or Microsoft) want to go into late 2024 with first-party games still looking cross-gen.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

It's such a shame that AAA games and the hype associated with them are sold based on perceived graphics quality and not gameplay.

It's why, IMO, most of the best games will forever more be indie and AA games, where gameplay is far more important than graphics. Although occasionally there's a good AAA game.

Regards,
SB

 

[snc]

Looks out sony will discover their new strategy is not that briliant even sooner then I thought ;d

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1662174968384311296

 

[Scott_Arm]

I mean the games as a service stuff is huge money. Sure, plenty of them fail, the same way plenty of single player story games bomb.

 

[eastmen]

I don't think realistically people are holding out on Xbox because they only wants Series X. I mean, lots of people are comfortable with paying the cheaper price if there is a title there they want badly. Not all of us can afford shiny new things, and the Series S is definitely a great device for this time of recession and inflation for everyone. It's affordable gaming. We are deep enough into the generation that the mainstream should be buying in, but they just haven't found a reason for it.

I want to be fair that cross gen is likely finally over for Xbox here. They should have stepped away from it after releasing Halo. So maybe this is going to be a turn of events for them once their first party is all Series consoles only. But the people won't flock if there is nothing to flock to.

I mean it could be but I still don't know if we should claim that these games aren't bringing people into the ecosystem. The games are doing extremely well and will continue to be draws for the xbox platform.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Which is interesting since Sony's own slides show that add-on content (which GAAS excels at) is the fastest growing revenue segment for Sony.

Sony use "add-on" I think because it covers things that many wouldn't consider as GaaS like certain DLC.

Destiny and World of Warcraft's DLC model are examples of titles that I think most people would not debate is a GaaS model. You pay them for content, and if you stop you don't have access to new places and gear, and the online space you do have access too is stagnant and often less populated because everything is fighting in the new shiny place.

Then there are Ghost of Tsushima, The Last of Us, Infamous Second Son, Skyrim, and Fallout 4. Games will compelling DLC, but it's not the GaaS model. Sony don't break down add-on into clear GaaS and not-GaaS DLC and maybe it doesn't matter. But my comment above was focussing on titles that were designed at the core to be GaaS.

It's worth noting that the two comparison slots were the two-a-half years of PS4 and the equivalent for PS5. Sony - questionably - sold a lot of PS5 'upgrades' / 'enhanced experience' for PS4 games in the first 18 months of PS5

 

[iroboto]

I mean the games as a service stuff is huge money. Sure, plenty of them fail, the same way plenty of single player story games bomb.

the majority of failures (it would be unfair to call them failures, they just didn’t meet expectations, Redfall is a failure though) from Xbox are all GaaS titles, or live service games. Honestly the scope is daunting and trying to be the predict what players will love in 5+ years time of development is impossible.

I look back at Anthem. And I just say damn. If they tossed the entire GaaS live experience and made that a single player game like Mass Effect, it could have been incredible.

 

[TEEDA]

I wouldnt mind a classic Mp shooter game like back with Killzone 2 Mp really. I love the multiple dynamic objective of the Mp of KZ2 even if it was chaotic on certain maps.
I might be old fashioned but I don't like games with too much customizations when it comes to weapons and modifiers. Just but balanced weapons and let the players skills do the talk. I stopped playing mp shooters after Uncharted 4. I loved Factions it reminded me so much of Socom in a way;
I really personnaly don't want another " The Division " clone or Pugb-like.
I really hope TLOU mp will find is own DNA otherwise I' ll probably pass.
I'm interested to see Concord and Marathon as well from a Game Desin perspective but I ll wait to see the gameplay reveal to see if I' ll jump in.

 

[Scott_Arm]

the majority of failures (it would be unfair to call them failures, they just didn’t meet expectations, Redfall is a failure though) from Xbox are all GaaS titles, or live service games. Honestly the scope is daunting and trying to be the predict what players will love in 5+ years time of development is impossible.

I look back at Anthem. And I just say damn. If they tossed the entire GaaS live experience and made that a single player game like Mass Effect, it could have been incredible.

Except Mass Effect Andromeda was totally broken and Anthem tanked because of poor performance and bad gameplay, not because it was a live service game. It’s fundamental issues like does the game run well and is the core game loop fun. There are as many terrible broken single player games as live service ones.

 

[iroboto]

Except Mass Effect Andromeda was totally broken and Anthem tanked because of poor performance and bad gameplay, not because it was a live service game. It’s fundamental issues like does the game run well and is the core game loop fun. There are as many terrible broken single player games as live service ones.

It’s hard to say how much is related to making a destiny style game versus a pure single player experience.

Andromeda seems like they struggled with being forced to use Frostbyte, which also carried over to Anthem.

 

[Scott_Arm]

…

Andromeda seems like they struggled with being forced to use Frostbyte, which also carried over to Anthem.

It’s kind of my main argument. AAA games are getting bigger and bigger but there are fundamental problems with the tools. Anthem and ME Andromeda are perfect examples. An engine isn’t just a renderer and the simulation that runs on your console or pc. It is also all of the tools the developers use to produce the content: profilers, debuggers, scripting, asset importing, data management, art tools, animation tools etc. I think renderers are keeping up relatively well but the rest of the parts of the engine are not. All you hear about is devs that are struggling with low productivity tools. UE5 looks like it’s making efforts to improve productivity but a lot of games coming out now started years ago and tried to stretch UE4 past its limits.

 

[iroboto]

It’s kind of my main argument. AAA games are getting bigger and bigger but there are fundamental problems with the tools. Anthem and ME Andromeda are perfect examples. An engine isn’t just a renderer and the simulation that runs on your console or pc. It is also all of the tools the developers use to produce the content: profilers, debuggers, scripting, asset importing, data management, art tools, animation tools etc. I think renderers are keeping up relatively well but the rest of the parts of the engine are not. All you hear about is devs that are struggling with low productivity tools. UE5 looks like it’s making efforts to improve productivity but a lot of games coming out now started years ago and tried to stretch UE4 past its limits.

Yea, I didn’t mean to dismiss your original intent. You are correct, the tools have not caught up with the size of the games being made.

I was just suggesting that scaling back the amount to work (reducing platforms, removing multiplayer etc) would likely result in better results than pushing well beyond what your studio is actually capable of. And that’s just 1 aspect of the project management triangle. There’s a lot of areas that need fixing, and it’s sadly too large to resolve all at once.