Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2023]

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I highly doubt whether fsr1.0 is used. If someone could use an emulator to do a frame capture to confirm, that will be great.

Sure it could be and they do include the licensing, but for a mobile chip title? Fsr1.0 is pretty performance heavy (texture sampling-wise), and considering the very tiny improvement to the overall image quality, well, it doesn’t look like the wise choice to me at least.
 
Is the fsr use official ? Because if not, I wonder why Jon believe they are, on a nvidia centered console and api. I don't doubt they have similar techs they can use.
The fsr1.0 license is included in the game’s whole license file.
That being said, this is not a strong confirmation, because splatoon3 NS Sports also have the license file but we all know it doesn’t look like that they actually use it
 
They made an official statement about this. Guess what was their reasons?

DX12/Vulkan triples your QA testing, too many things can easily go wrong, which causes instant artifacts and instant crashes, this directly translated to a hugely inflated QA budget for DX12/Vulkan. They simply ran out of budget just to investigate the crashes.


Worth noting that article is from 2019 btw. I'm not so sure it would be perfectly applicable to the state of the DX12 ecosystem nearly 4 years later.
 
Scaling up your game is likely to run well regardless as long as you spend even a little bit attention to the porting process. However, it will never ... ever ... look as good as a game that targets better hardware and then is scaled down. You will always be limited by some extent to the assets you chose to use for the lower performing platform. Monster Hunter: Rise is a great example of this. They increased some things that were feasible to increase, texture detail, effects, resolution, etc. But you can't easily create model asset detail, truly high fidelity textures (although AI is getting pretty good at this), for instance, without recreating the model, textures, geometry, etc. OTOH: if you started out with a highly complex model, it's far easier to scale it down to less complexity.

Scaling up, you have to try to figure out what can you add to the game and it's rendering pipeline without breaking it's rendering pipeline.

Scaling down, you have to try to figure out what you can either remove or reduce in detail to run on worse hardware.

The second is far easier than the first to achieve a certain level of graphical fidelity combined with good performance on higher end hardware. The first will never be able to approach the graphical fidelity of the second method while the second method can still attain the same performance level on hardware that the first method's game was designed around and potentially look better if the developer is particularly good at optimization and scaling of assets, similar, or if the developers aren't good at scaling down it could also be worse.

Regards,
SB
I agree. I think we were talking past each other a bit. It depends on what you want the result to be. Scaling up is better for performance and pure headroom especially if the game already looks good. But if your pinning a game on graphics or pure scale then yes starting at a higher baseline is good.

What I would say is the current consoles provide a good balance of both. They are powerful enough to make beautiful looking games graphically when tailored to and are a good target when scaling games up for PC and higher end hardware.

The question is how does lower end hw than the consoles fit into this and why devs are having issues. From what Alex and John have said the current consoles jump is maybe too high for devs to get a proper handle on for all skus and possible configurations at once.

Which is much different from the back half of the 7th gen and 8th gen of consoles where you could just expect PC hw to outpace consoles hw by an order of magnitude so optimization on PC wasn't even that big of a deal outside of particularly bad messes like arkham knight
 
Is the fsr use official ? Because if not, I wonder why Jon believe they are, on a nvidia centered console and api. I don't doubt they have similar techs they can use.
Being Nvidia doesn't mean anything here. It's not like DLSS is an option, and FSR is not some 'AMD exclusive' technology by any means. So I'm not sure what the big doubt is.

Not saying DF dont ever get anything wrong, they obviously do on occasion, but this seems like poor reasoning to doubt it in this situation. FSR seems like it could be a good fit, as FSR2 is more costly and doesn't always work that well at such low resolutions. But it's certainly possible that it's just some upscaling/sharpening solution the devs came up with on their own. It's interesting it's not the Xenoblade Chronicles 3 solution, though. I was half expecting that, since the same devs worked on this game and it seemed to work so well in a similar-esque style of large, open, 3rd person setting.
 
I highly doubt whether fsr1.0 is used. If someone could use an emulator to do a frame capture to confirm, that will be great.

Sure it could be and they do include the licensing, but for a mobile chip title? Fsr1.0 is pretty performance heavy (texture sampling-wise), and considering the very tiny improvement to the overall image quality, well, it doesn’t look like the wise choice to me at least.
After close inspection on the actual game, there does seem to be ringing artifacts, so it might actually be fsr1. Have to say not a fan of this, as the overall image looks kinda dry and raw to me (like a photo taken with a high ISO)
also i really hope they can fix the dynamic res bug, it's weird that you got all those temporary blur just rotating your camera
 
Being Nvidia doesn't mean anything here. It's not like DLSS is an option, and FSR is not some 'AMD exclusive' technology by any means. So I'm not sure what the big doubt is.

Not saying DF dont ever get anything wrong, they obviously do on occasion, but this seems like poor reasoning to doubt it in this situation. FSR seems like it could be a good fit, as FSR2 is more costly and doesn't always work that well at such low resolutions. But it's certainly possible that it's just some upscaling/sharpening solution the devs came up with on their own. It's interesting it's not the Xenoblade Chronicles 3 solution, though. I was half expecting that, since the same devs worked on this game and it seemed to work so well in a similar-esque style of large, open, 3rd person setting.
xenoblade 2's engine already implemented TAA, so the modification to the render pipieline should be easier to incorporate temporal upscaling.
Botw is not, it doesn't even seem to utilize any sort of screen space motion blur (mostly done by trail meshes) so i don't really think its pipeline has the motion vector data. Especially considering the grass and vegatation in the new zelda games, which are super interactive and there's no way to get accurate reprojection on them without a huge performance cost. I don't think temporal upscaling a good fit (also performance-wise, in xb3, the upscaling pass along took almost 1/3 of the frame time)
 
Someone should be able to dig into the game files, look for FSR library, then delete it if it is there, then run the game with the modified pack.

Assuming the botw unpacker thingy works for totk...
 
In TOTK, the fog/mist that is closed to the ground seems to be raymarched (like what they did in xenoblade 2), you can spot the jitter noise and low-step-count raymarch artifacts when examining real close (not super clear in the screenshot due to low quality compression)
Although the sky clouds are still billboards with attempts to simulate volumetric lighting somewhat
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I know the system is different and all, but when I heard the section about the cloud system, I had in my mind Guerrila devs talking about their own cloud system in the latest Horizon, saying that they needed ps5 power, and some crazy Nintendo devs looking at the Switch, saying "hold my beer"...
 
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I know the system is different and all, but when I heard the section about the cloud system, I had in my mind Guerrila devs talking about their own cloud system in the latest Horizon, saying that they needed ps5 power, and some crazy Nintendo devs looking at the Switch, saying "hold my beer"...

This is not the same rendering technology at all...
 
I know the system is different and all, but when I heard the section about the cloud system, I had in my mind Guerrila devs talking about their own cloud system in the latest Horizon, saying that they needed ps5 power, and some crazy Nintendo devs looking at the Switch, saying "hold my beer"...
well, Monolith did bring the true volumetric cloud system to the switch in all 3 xenoblade games, although at a fairly low resolution. But damn that's impressive
 
Control is from 2019 and unfortunately there is still hardly a game that surpasses Control in terms of ray tracing except for Cyberpunk 2077. Combined with the exceptionally good art style, the good surface materials and the complex destruction it makes for phenomenal visuals.

Control is one of my favorite games and just this week I played through Control again and thought: Maybe there is a mod that will get rid of the reloading textures and pixellated smoke. Now suddenly there is a video about it. But what Control still needs are complete ray tracing shadows. They are sometimes too low quality for me.

As for the ray tracing noise goes I would have expected that Nvidia would solve that with tensor cores.
 
Control is from 2019 and unfortunately there is still hardly a game that surpasses Control in terms of ray tracing except for Cyberpunk 2077. Combined with the exceptionally good art style, the good surface materials and the complex destruction it makes for phenomenal visuals.

Control is one of my favorite games and just this week I played through Control again and thought: Maybe there is a mod that will get rid of the reloading textures and pixellated smoke. Now suddenly there is a video about it. But what Control still needs are complete ray tracing shadows. They are sometimes too low quality for me.

As for the ray tracing noise goes I would have expected that Nvidia would solve that with tensor cores.

I would have to say Hitman 3, Metro Exodus, Chernobylite, and Call of Duty: Black OPS Cold War ray-tracing implementations are quite excellent and surpasses Control's RT in many areas.
 
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