More likely to be to allow slower / SATA SSDs to buffer / stream over a longer period of time IMO.
16GB ram with a (recommended) SSD is currently the minimum spec for Returnal.
Next-Generation NVMe SSD and I/O Technology [PC, PS5, XBSX|S]
- Thread starter Shortbread
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More likely to be to allow slower / SATA SSDs to buffer / stream over a longer period of time IMO.
16GB ram with a (recommended) SSD is currently the minimum spec for Returnal.
Nope, it has 32 GB.
How do you determine the different between dying from overuse and dying from component failure? I've had a couple of SSDs die on me that were in HTPCs with barely any local drive use.
No idea, I was quite shocked.
You should still be able to pull SMART data from a worn out drive. Here's mine from the example above.
Inuhanyou
Veteran
So at the very least, equivalent memory and a basic SSD should be fine. But that's still a huge improvement and opens more possibilities than being stuck with hdd probably
From where I'm standing, the only good merit to HDD going forward is the sheer amount of static storage space over SSD
Holy shit, 16TB of host writes on a 180GB drive, but then an insane 403TB of NAND writes underneath??! Write amplification like whoa, that's more than 2200 full drive overwrites! Yeah man, that poor drive deserved to finally give out.
The best part is it was only used for about an hour a day. Someone turned that poor office PC into a radiology workstation for their morning meetings.
Two years, seven months and about eight days of power on time, that's probably just about the very worst case you could expect for a drive to live through.
Still, it's also a fantastic demonstration of how much you have to kick an SSD drive in the teeth to kill it. A very old 180GB SATA SSD drive lived through 2200 full write cycles over just shy of three years. Now take that same exact desktop and workload, swap the 180GB drive for a Sammy 840 Evo 1TB, and the math says it would've lived for fourteen years, five months and around nine days.
Anyone who loses sleep over their modern SSD dying thanks to overuse isn't worrying about the right things
Still, it's also a fantastic demonstration of how much you have to kick an SSD drive in the teeth to kill it. A very old 180GB SATA SSD drive lived through 2200 full write cycles over just shy of three years. Now take that same exact desktop and workload, swap the 180GB drive for a Sammy 840 Evo 1TB, and the math says it would've lived for fourteen years, five months and around nine days.
Anyone who loses sleep over their modern SSD dying thanks to overuse isn't worrying about the right things
Ya, I'm kinda impressed overall.Two years, seven months and about eight days of power on time, that's probably just about the very worst case you could expect for a drive to live through.
Still, it's also a fantastic demonstration of how much you have to kick an SSD drive in the teeth to kill it. A very old 180GB SATA SSD drive lived through 2200 full write cycles over just shy of three years. Now take that same exact desktop and workload, swap the 180GB drive for a Sammy 840 Evo 1TB, and the math says it would've lived for fourteen years, five months and around nine days.
Anyone who loses sleep over their modern SSD dying thanks to overuse isn't worrying about the right things
To give some context, a single CT study often contains thousands of images with each of them being in the tens of megabytes. This is obviously very network intensive so the imaging system will also use the client SSD as a cache. I've already seen some SSDs down into the 60-80% range in the 4 years since we implemented this system and those all have 32-48GB of RAM and 512GB SSDs. But this poor thing only had 8GB with a 180GB SSD.
Consumer workloads aren't even in the same ballpark.
People still really overestimated what fast IO allows. In the past games were often Io limited but only up to a certain point. Also loading times is still not top priority for developers. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. We seen games even on PS4 that loaded much faster after a patch. That's what happens if you optimize your loading architecture in a game. Most often it is not really IO- but code-related.
Gta5 on PC might be the most prominent game where over years the developers didn't track down the issue that a configuration file was loaded countless times over and over again until someone in the community "patched" it. For the developers this was just not an issue as the game worked.
IO with current systems just became a no brainer for most developers.
Yes you can use some resources more effective but ultimately it doesn't magically change games. It is just another quality of life improvement.
Yes it makes it possible that games more or less have almost no loading screens for data (but maybe for other CPU related tasks) but that really doesn't make games magically better.
I really don't have a problem with loading screens if the game is good.
IMHO one of the best features Sony introduced with the PS5 was skipping logos after you've seen them once. Loading screens for menus are the way bigger problem as user interaction is required between 2 loading screens (and with a push a button action to enter the menu .... Really?....). Yes the game might also load some things into memory, connect to certain services, ... But can't games just show a load savegame or new game button directly and begin the bulk load after something was selected so we can directly enter a game.
Gta5 on PC might be the most prominent game where over years the developers didn't track down the issue that a configuration file was loaded countless times over and over again until someone in the community "patched" it. For the developers this was just not an issue as the game worked.
IO with current systems just became a no brainer for most developers.
Yes you can use some resources more effective but ultimately it doesn't magically change games. It is just another quality of life improvement.
Yes it makes it possible that games more or less have almost no loading screens for data (but maybe for other CPU related tasks) but that really doesn't make games magically better.
I really don't have a problem with loading screens if the game is good.
IMHO one of the best features Sony introduced with the PS5 was skipping logos after you've seen them once. Loading screens for menus are the way bigger problem as user interaction is required between 2 loading screens (and with a push a button action to enter the menu .... Really?....). Yes the game might also load some things into memory, connect to certain services, ... But can't games just show a load savegame or new game button directly and begin the bulk load after something was selected so we can directly enter a game.
Load faster means around 20 or 30 second at best
. Like I said study for internet are done and human lost patience after 4 seconds. People have no choice for the moment. The example of GTA 5 is a good one because developers don't care before because HDD are so slow. But after PS5, Xbox Series and Direct Storage on PC, there will be no come back.
There are at least two games where SSD will be great during games this is the next Spiderman with better swinging speed and Horizon 3 with faster flight speed. Flying in HFW is very slow.
How I cut GTA Online loading times by 70%
GTA Online. Infamous for its slow loading times. Having picked up the game again to finish some of the newer heists I was shocked (/s) to discover that it still loads just as slow as the day it was re
nee.lv
The guy who solve the GTA 5 loading problem it tooks only 1 minutes 50 for GTA online. This is better than 6 minutes but this is not great.
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Overstander
Newcomer
The Horizon Forbidden West Addon "Burning Shores" is PS5 only! We will see if Guerrilla Games can leverage the PS5 better there.Load faster means around 20 or 30 second at best
There are at least two games where SSD will be great during games this is the next Spiderman with better swinging speed and Horizon 3 with faster flight speed. Flying in HFW is very slow.
The Flightspeed as you mentioned was rather slow in HFW..
The whole game is PS5 only at the moment. When it comes to PC though it'll likely include all add-ons and DLC.
There's no reason at all for PS5 games that are destined for PC to hold back in their use of the fast IO. There are plenty of ways around it on PC including a higher RAM recommendation ala Returnal, an NVMe requirement, or simply lowering settings like texture resolution and LOD to reduce streaming requirements in the first place.
I don’t think it’s been overestimated. I think it’s just not been used. Fast IO resolves game and level design issues that have largely plagued titles after we got into the high fidelity era.
There is a reason why the terms corridor shooter, or walking simulator, were created. They described games that were largely streamlined in exchange for graphical fidelity. Lots of QTE to hide loading screens and the weapons and what was available to use were limited because on demand asset recall is out of scope for the slow spinning HDDs.
The real question that needs to be asked is whether it’s over engineered, which it may be, sure, but more means it won’t be the bottleneck. it’s a damn good upgrade and as we finally leave last Gen behind in 2023 I think we will finally get to see the fruits of fast IO and some other marketed features.
Overstander
Newcomer
hm?! Forbidden West is cross gen
.. Only the Addon is PS5 only.. So what is shown on PS5 in HFW is not pulling the most out of PS5. With my post is did not implie they would gimp future PS5 Exclusives. After investing so heavily in custom PS5 tech it would be lunacy to gimp PS5 Development only because PC market has not evolved fast enough. If the Solution of "just" having 32GB of Ram is enough to have the same expirience in terms of fast loading or streaming of assets then iam all for it. Initial loading to main screen might take longer though and therew it would depend of course of ones storage solution..
hm?! Forbidden West is cross gen
Initial loading to main screen might take longer though and therew it would depend of course of ones storage solution..
Gotcha, I thought you were referencing PC with the exclusive statement based on your earlier post, my bad.
I think on PC the options look like this from best to worst:
1. Leverage fast IO if its available just like the PS5.
2. Cache a large portion of the game assets to system RAM and stream from there.
3. Lower the streaming requirements by lowering in game settings.
Even with a fast IO system it's probably still beneficial to cache as much through system RAM as possible anyway for further increased performance.
People forget when they were playing games on consoles with cartridge. One of my best experience was playing Street Fighter 2 on Super NES for the first time after Christmas with my brothers and cousins with very fast loading between each fight. After PS1 it was a huge downgrade for loading time. All games will benefit from fast loading but games with local multiplayer will be great like Sports games (FIFA, NBA, Madden) or fighting Games(Street Fighter, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, Injustice, Guilty gear...). I think when players were changing fighters and stage sometimes loading were longer than the fight with slow storage, same for racing games single player. And I won't speak about difficult die and retry games like Soulsborne or Returnal where loading time are annoying.
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Overstander
Newcomer
i think real PS5 Exclusives pose a challenge for PC ports though. The custom hardware in PS5 is massive. Leveraging fast io just like PS5 is simply not possible on PC. Iam a hard disbeliever of Direct Storage Efficiency and only a realy good implementation that pulls just like PS5 in the same Game will make me revise my thoughts on the matter. A cobbled together Solution of making use of ~some GPU Ressources while using a very new API AND the SSD Protocols cannot be as efficient and friction less as PS5 all hardware based abstracted Solution.
Cerny made it very clear that ALL Steps need to be friction less not only the decompression. DMA , Check In and Load Management are done on PS5 with another custom unit wich is equivalent to another 2 zen 2 cores. The plus in latency on PC for all those steps will eventually cause friction. Then there are the PCs inferior to PS5. Can they also profit from Direct Storage?
Dont get me wrong Direct Storage WILL enhance PC games!
I just dont think that it will be on par with PS5 on most PCs.. The GPU Ressources alone.. I mean it is cute that Jensen thinks that every RTX Card could produce 14GB/s of decompressed Data.. But i want to know how will that pull away Rasterisation performance or heck Raytracing Performance.. But if the Ram Pool solution is enough than all the mumbo jumbo i just wrote is irrelevant . And of course lowering some settings might do it for some aswell of course .
With Sporfoken
using DS on PC we will have a first pointer how future will be for the tech. On PS5 the Demos fast travel is realy instantaneous. Like < 1sec.Similar threads
